A participant explains:



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Hi, Kathleen.

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Happy to see you here.

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And I'm very grateful that you want

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to share some of your experiences.

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You are a happy mother, a proud mother

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of three children, a happy family, and

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you have a career in international company.

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And as most people in Western society are doing, we are

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rushing because we want to be the best mother and to

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be a good employee and to be a good colleague and

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to be a good manager and to be good in everything.

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And at a certain moment, what I see as a

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medical doctor quite often and what we see with the

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'15Minutes4Me.com' program, a lot of people, they

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hit the borders of what our body can take.

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And for some people, they go and burn out.

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Others get anxiety, others will get

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depressions or other psychosomatic problems.

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In your case, it was mainly burn out.

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So that almost from one day to another, your body

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said, okay, I don't collaborate in the game anymore.

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And I'd like to have your experience.

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What I want to learn from you and also to be able

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to share with people who view is what was helpful to you.

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So what did you learn from that experience?

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And in the second stage, what did

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the program contribute to this help?

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So what in general was helpful to you and how did

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you find a program and how did that contribute to what

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you wanted to change and what you wanted to reach in your life?

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So I think if I understand correctly, Paul, your

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first question is around what did I learn from

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the overall experience, from the burn out itself I guess? Yeah.

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And especially from the experience and what helps because

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of course, it's more useful that people learn about

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what helps than the diagnostic or the medical part.

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Yeah.

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So I think certainly that what I think, which

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is very important, is that you try to prevent

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it, because if you are for the people that

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are going through it, they probably already know.

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For the people that are for the moment,

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experiencing very high stress symptoms, it's not a

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great moment to hit the wall.

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So as you mentioned, you don't see it coming.

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If you hit the wall, it's too late.

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Now, the good news is that you can get out of it.

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I'm kind of a proof of that for myself.

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You can get out of it if you follow the right step.

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I hear all the stories of people who don't do that.

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And I can also share that because I come across

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also people that have had a burnout, and then you

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still see that there's still some remaining issues that they

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are tackling, and then you still wonder, didn't you get

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the right help or what have you missed or what

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was different for me, that I don't seem to have

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these remaining anxiety problems or remaining stress symptoms.

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That's interesting.

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We certainly want to go deeper on that one also here.

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So for me, what I noticed is, okay, you go

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into a burnout and then you're confronted with yourself.

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So I had a lot of medical support, and one

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of the big questions that was asking me is what

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are you going to change in your life?

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That's the question that doctors are the

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people who try to help you. Yeah.

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That's quite tough because at that moment

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in time you're not feeling so great.

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Let's say that you're not in a solution state of mind.

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You don't find that quickly solution.

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So on your own, that's not so easy to go

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through that. Do you mean, like it's probably the most

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important question, but at that time it's almost like too

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early to answer it or too difficult?

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I think it's too difficult

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because you're not feeling okay.

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You don't know exactly what caused it.

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So you first need some relief before you can what

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I hear you say, it's like as if it's a

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process in different stages where in one stage you need

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to relieve the body and in a later stage you

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will need to address that deeper questions.

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Yeah, certainly.

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So there's certainly a resting part in there.

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What really helped me with the online program is

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it starts up quite slowly in the sense that

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it explains you at the start a lot of

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concepts about how your mind works.

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And those were things that

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I actually didn't know before.

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So you mean that what was helpful for you?

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Is this what we call in our technical words

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of psycho education, where we teach in simple, non

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medical words how the brain works and what happens

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when you get into either burnout or depression or

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anxiety so that you have an understanding almost like

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biologically what's happening. Because I think something is going

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wrong with your heart or with another organ.

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You get quite a lot of

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great explanations from your doctors.

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I didn't get a feeling when I had a

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burnout that these type of explanations were given.

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And actually you can consider it's an organ as well.

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And it works in a certain way.

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And the more you understand it, the more

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as well you can work with it. Yeah.

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So the understanding of the biological, let's say the simplified

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explanation of the biological parts of the brain, that was

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very useful to you. It is very useful. Certainly. And then the fact that it

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is daily, I think that is very crucial. Yeah.

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Has that been important to you, the fact

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that you have a kind of daily structure

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or support or something at home?

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I was in the case, I was at home.

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I can imagine when people are not at home

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yet, but still you are struggling to survive, to

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survive your stress into that moment in time.

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It's great to know that you have a 15 minutes

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daily help for yourself or moments of reflection and that

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you don't need to wait for what is it a

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typical one month before you see your doctor again?

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Two weeks or three weeks.

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It's in the evening again that you get

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some information or an exercise to do.

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And that is a little step.Because

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that's interesting what you're saying, because your

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experience like this daily report was important.

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And sometimes people who didn't follow the program,

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they asked me this kind of question like, but

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don't you need this human relationship?

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How can a program be useful?

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Some people say this must be very

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anonymous, although I hear some people who

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experience the program say the opposite.

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How did that relate in comparison

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with someone guiding you live?

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But you have to drive there and

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all the consequences because it's daily.

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But it's a program.

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I'm not saying that one

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can always substitute the others.

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I also use the face to face support.

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But I do see it certainly has a very big compliment.

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And I can also understand for people that are

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not in a situation that I was already if

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I would have known of this before. Yeah.

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More preventive. For more preventive that

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it's probably you don't want to

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go and see whatever psychologist, coach.

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That's what I hear from many people.Because

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you don't feel that you're ill, you don't

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feel that it's the moment to see them.

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Yet there's still taboo around it.

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And in that case, I think it is very easy to

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start off this program and you probably see even quicker benefits

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than in the case when you're already deep in it.

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Yeah, that's what I've heard from other people also.

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But what you are saying is that

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this daily support was very important.

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So the fact that there was every

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day some type of a guidance. Yeah.

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Also because what I also liked is that you start to

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kind of test to see how you are different levels.

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And it shows it very graphically.

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In my case, I think it was very confrontational

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to see that I was not doing great.

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I already knew that consultant with that as well.

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And then actually, you see, because of your

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daily follow up, you see an evolution.

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And I think that is fantastic.

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The fact that you have a kind of feedback from

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yourself to yourself through the program. Then you see actually

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that it's paying off and it's a quite quick evolution.

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I'm not saying you go immediately from red and

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to green and so not what is happening.

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But you see that through the actions that you

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are taking, you see that you are slowly but surely okay.

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How does it feel like you have

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to motivate yourself to do it?

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Was it difficult to of course, you get your

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invitation by email, but you still have to decide

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to take action to keep following the program.

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Was it difficult or was it pretty easy? It's only 15 minutes.

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Yeah.

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So I think when you're at home and 15 minutes

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is certainly not a lot, when you are still working.

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And so I've heard of other people that have followed it

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then even then the 15 minutes is not a lot.

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Do you also get feedbacks of colleagues,

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who follow the program and who

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are still more in the preventive state?

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In the preventive state, yeah. Maybe.

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Do you have some reflections on how because it's

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interesting to hear how you experienced it, but if

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you have feedback from colleagues, how they experienced it

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as a kind of more in an earlier preventive

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stage? How does it work for them?

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I think it's the same.

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The first thing that was interesting for them is to

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realize that they did have a problem and then that

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you can also work on that job because there's so

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many different places you can go to.

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But there's not a lot people don't

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find a lot of trusted places.

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There's quite a lot of people

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that have followed your programs.

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So you do have some evolution over time.

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There's some research that has been done so that builds

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kind of a trust for people to start using it

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because you have to get over that first fear of...

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Was that difficult for you when you were looking on

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the Internet to decide what to find, which program or which

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solution to trust, or was it a difficult search?

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I think for me, I looked at something which

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seemed to be built by someone who has experience

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in the domain and where you see that there

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is a continuous effort on improving the program and

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that also does thorough reflections on the subject itself. So, I think that was for me.

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Of course, there are other solutions available, but still,

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I think you have to do your own market

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research to see if it fits your needs.

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And for me, this was a great and easy

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solution for a reasonable price to sell, because I

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think that is an easy you don't need to

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buy immediately for whatever, six months or so. Yeah.

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You can decide one month, and if later

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you say no, it's enough, it's enough.

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If you want more, you can step in for another month.

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It can be immediately or much later.

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That's what we tried to do to leave choice. Yeah.

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And it's not like this membership where

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you didn't see the small numbers.

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It's not easy to so you can stop it.

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You can also pick it up again if you

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feel that you want to pick it up again.

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So at least you are, because the people that

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are using it, I would say, are in quite

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a fragile situation and you don't have the feeling

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that somebody is taking advantage of you.

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So you can stop it if you want to stop it.

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You can start if you want it. It is an open game. Exactly. That's good.

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Now you were telling me about that

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daily structure was helpful to you.

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What else?

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Or the information in the beginning, what more was helpful

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in the program and how did it help you?

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How did it impact you?

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What I really liked and which was not

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even, I think, marketed as much when I

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decided to use it was the body system. Yeah.

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The feedback. The feedback from bodies from you

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select who are the people around you that

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are going to support you through your process.

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And it actually helped them to know how to support me.

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So the fact that we teach in small

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videos, the family members, YouTube, your friends who

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are your buddies, that they got some more

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instruction on how to be helpful to you. Yeah.

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And you see, I actually didn't know that

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you received videos, but it did help.

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It was interesting.

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I didn't know.

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But I could see a change in the

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way that they were interacting with me. With you.

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Yeah, that's interesting because we try in the program because

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we want to see how can we help people and

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use their natural system and natural resources and family and

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friends are natural resource, and that's the goal.

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But it's pleasant to hear that that's

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really the way you experience it also.

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Yeah, because it also, I think, clarified a lot

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to them of what is going on with you,

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which is not something that you can always explain.

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It's not they are going with you

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to a doctor's appointment or whatever.

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So in that sense, I truly felt a change

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in their interactions with their way of supporting you.

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That's interesting. That's very nice.

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I remember that he once mentioned to

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me the self reflection aspects, that it

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helped you look different at yourself.

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Could you tell something about how that works for you?

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Yeah, I think in the self reflection, I probably

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didn't mention it now again, because it has become so

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natural for me to do this now.

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So I think the most important part of

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my 15 minutes is that it's about learning

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new behaviors that you then incorporate in your

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DNA and that you then continue to use.

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So the idea is not that you're going

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to use this and then forget about it.

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The idea is that you're going to change the way that

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you are. So self reflection can be a lot of things.

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One of the things that I think that I realized

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for myself that learning to say no in every type

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of circumstance is not an easy thing to do.

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So through the program, you learned to put

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more boundaries and say no to people.

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It's already discovering that this is I think the

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first step in the program is always observing certain

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behavior, which was interesting for me as well, because

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we have the idea that immediately we need to

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change something, which is quite difficult actually.

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But if you already start by

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observing behavior that you have.

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Yeah, it goes slower.

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It goes slower, and it's much more mindful,

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and you're a little bit milder on yourself.

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So certain behaviors, and then you

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decide for yourself that you actually have

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choices of shooting for another behavior.

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And I think in the first step realizing

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that, okay, I have difficulties to say no.

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Then you observe that for some time, and

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then you can realize, okay, what's another type

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of behavior that I can have?

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That's interesting.

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You always make me smile.

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Because when you are telling this about saying

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no, I was thinking did we include this

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as a topic in the program?

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And I don't even remember.

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So I would assume that this was

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some self discovery that you did by

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answering the questions and observing yourself.

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Because it's not something that we certainly

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not in the version that you were

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attending, because since then it has evolved.

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But in the version that you are attending, we

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never said that saying no is an important thing.

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So it seems that it's something that you are subconsciously...

17:34.392 --> 17:36.862
There are a couple of questions every day.

17:36.936 --> 17:39.898
I don't remember them by heart, which trigger yourself

17:39.984 --> 17:44.410
reflection and then you can listen for yourself, certain

17:44.520 --> 17:47.794
behaviors or things that are getting into your way.

17:47.892 --> 17:51.840
And I think this is an example of something that really...

17:52.650 --> 17:54.598
Because do you remember how long is it to go?

17:54.624 --> 17:58.560
Is it more than a year or more years?

18:00.750 --> 18:03.658
It's actually almost certainly two

18:03.684 --> 18:05.638
and a half years ago.

18:05.664 --> 18:08.278
That the program. It's interesting.

18:08.364 --> 18:10.858
I forgot that it was already so long

18:10.884 --> 18:15.250
ago because then you have a better overview

18:16.770 --> 18:18.914
what it makes on the long term.

18:18.962 --> 18:21.780
Because sometimes people say, yeah, I'm going to do.

18:22.170 --> 18:24.790
Sometimes people by mistakes, write me an email

18:24.840 --> 18:29.258
and say your course or your Elearning.

18:29.354 --> 18:32.950
But I did never design it as an Elearning

18:33.270 --> 18:36.490
because you are familiar in companies with Elearning.

18:36.870 --> 18:38.002
What's the difference between

18:38.076 --> 18:39.374
this program and Elearning?

18:39.422 --> 18:41.114
Because some people think because there's

18:41.162 --> 18:43.474
also some videos in the program.

18:43.572 --> 18:46.414
So some people think it's something like

18:46.452 --> 18:48.838
Elearning, but it's different, I guess. Yeah.

18:48.864 --> 18:54.238
Because Elearning is really a training you would train

18:54.324 --> 18:57.478
someone on, I don't know, stress management only.

18:57.624 --> 19:00.802
I'm not saying that there's no aspects in there which I

19:00.816 --> 19:06.274
would rather consider as mentoring, someone who has a lot of

19:06.312 --> 19:10.678
more experience in it, who is sharing techniques on how you

19:10.704 --> 19:17.414
can better manage your stress, how it would be easier for

19:17.452 --> 19:22.000
you to get your mind to slow down.

19:23.290 --> 19:25.900
There's a couple of techniques that I can think of.

19:28.550 --> 19:30.078
What is the big difference is that I

19:30.104 --> 19:32.914
would rather call it some kind of coaching

19:32.962 --> 19:35.610
mode because it's self coaching mode.

19:37.670 --> 19:40.666
It's you in person behind the camera.

19:40.738 --> 19:43.940
It becomes quite personal in that way.

19:44.390 --> 19:50.290
And through the questions, you trigger people to reflect

19:50.350 --> 19:54.962
and bring them to their not you're the expert.

19:54.986 --> 19:57.394
But I think there's solution part of their

19:57.432 --> 20:01.982
brain that activates the solution focused thinking areas

20:02.006 --> 20:06.094
in the brain.Because otherwise I mean people that are

20:06.132 --> 20:08.474
in this phase are in their reptile brain

20:08.522 --> 20:10.490
and they don't find solutions anymore.

20:10.610 --> 20:13.980
So that's why it's stronger, I think.

20:15.090 --> 20:19.150
I would certainly not consider it as an Elearning.

20:21.090 --> 20:23.834
I wanted to hear what was your opinion?

20:23.882 --> 20:27.094
Because sometimes people are confused. Because of course most

20:27.132 --> 20:30.300
of the things on the market are Elearning. Yeah.

20:30.630 --> 20:33.506
And it's quite difficult to explain to people what's

20:33.518 --> 20:39.182
the difference because you learn some techniques, but it's

20:39.206 --> 20:41.194
not sure that you will integrate them in your

20:41.232 --> 20:44.158
daily life and in all the different contexts that

20:44.184 --> 20:47.030
you are going to work and professional.

20:47.150 --> 20:52.114
And I seem to have impression that you could

20:52.152 --> 20:54.814
integrate quite a lot of those things as well

20:54.852 --> 20:58.020
in your private life as in your business life.

20:59.250 --> 21:01.810
Because I remember that you once told me because

21:01.860 --> 21:05.146
we did this interview in Dutch language before.

21:05.328 --> 21:09.274
And I remember that in the Dutch interview you told

21:09.312 --> 21:12.838
me something that there were things that your daughter or

21:12.864 --> 21:17.014
one of your children were taking over, all those things

21:17.052 --> 21:19.834
that you indirectly were learning in the program.

21:19.992 --> 21:22.426
And then at a certain moment, I don't know,

21:22.548 --> 21:25.310
there was an incident that on the table.

21:25.370 --> 21:28.814
Your daughter at certain moment said, let's

21:28.922 --> 21:31.774
do this or that. Several things that

21:31.872 --> 21:33.542
we learned or that we adapted.

21:33.626 --> 21:35.698
I think one of the things that we did

21:35.724 --> 21:40.150
is sometimes we ask each other to ask nice

21:40.200 --> 21:43.234
stories about the day of people determining their day.

21:43.272 --> 21:46.800
So it brings it back to the positive part.

21:47.130 --> 21:50.686
So otherwise you always focus on the problems.

21:50.808 --> 21:53.110
That's something you still keep as a ritual.

21:53.550 --> 21:55.546
I'm not saying that we're doing that every day,

21:55.608 --> 21:58.620
but at regular points in time, we ask them

21:59.370 --> 22:03.370
and the children, it's funny because they even start

22:03.420 --> 22:07.654
a conversation themselves, and they will also notice when

22:07.692 --> 22:09.862
somebody is not replying to the question.

22:09.936 --> 22:13.354
So being very mindful towards children, if

22:13.392 --> 22:15.338
my husband is, for example, not answering,

22:15.374 --> 22:17.170
they will ask very nice questions.

22:17.220 --> 22:18.322
And how is your data?

22:18.396 --> 22:23.714
You haven't said anything, so it's quite helpful.

22:23.762 --> 22:25.414
So you can translate actually.

22:25.572 --> 22:27.874
And I think that is the challenge for each one of us.

22:27.912 --> 22:30.346
You follow the program and it's not like

22:30.468 --> 22:33.142
sets of rules that you need to follow.

22:33.276 --> 22:34.882
You can then see how it works for

22:34.896 --> 22:37.980
you and then adapt it to your situation.

22:38.490 --> 22:41.866
So these things that your children, for instance,

22:41.928 --> 22:46.214
were learning indirectly, was there some conscious effort

22:46.262 --> 22:47.974
that you said, oh, I want to share,

22:48.072 --> 22:49.634
or did that happen spontaneously?

22:49.682 --> 22:50.854
How does that work?

22:50.892 --> 22:53.590
I think to me it happened at the start very

22:53.640 --> 22:57.838
spontaneously because to be honest, my day didn't consist of

22:57.864 --> 22:59.974
a lot than the things that I was learning there.

23:00.012 --> 23:02.674
So you want to share of what is

23:02.712 --> 23:04.066
going on and what you are learning.

23:04.128 --> 23:06.646
And it brings you back in a

23:06.648 --> 23:08.938
nice way because before you're ill, your

23:08.964 --> 23:11.362
children don't understand what is going on.

23:11.496 --> 23:13.318
And I think then they saw a shift as

23:13.344 --> 23:17.158
well with me learning new things, bringing it to

23:17.184 --> 23:20.770
them and creating an interest on their side.

23:20.940 --> 23:25.334
And then I think later then you reflect

23:25.382 --> 23:27.202
back on what I learned from it.

23:27.216 --> 23:31.190
And you also realize, well, if you want to prevent

23:31.250 --> 23:34.822
your kids go through this, which you certainly want to

23:34.836 --> 23:37.860
do, then there's certain things you want to teach them.

23:38.730 --> 23:41.554
And then it's about how to go about

23:41.592 --> 23:43.942
it and how to explain the concepts and

23:44.076 --> 23:46.498
in a way that children also understand and

23:46.524 --> 23:49.582
they understand much more than we usually think. Yeah.

23:49.656 --> 23:50.580
That's amazing.

23:51.570 --> 23:53.050
In the beginning because the program

23:53.100 --> 23:54.286
is not designed for children.

23:54.348 --> 23:58.486
And one day there was a father of a 13 year old.

23:58.608 --> 24:02.182
They asked me, can my son follow your program?

24:02.256 --> 24:05.734
And I said, I'm sorry, I really don't know.

24:05.892 --> 24:10.618
But if he wants to try and he needs more

24:10.644 --> 24:13.570
help, I will step in and maybe you can help.

24:13.620 --> 24:17.926
And actually, afterwards I heard that this was probably

24:17.988 --> 24:21.514
pretty much your 13 year old kid, but it

24:21.552 --> 24:25.630
seemed to have been working, and I even had

24:25.740 --> 24:29.218
recently I met someone where mother and daughter were

24:29.244 --> 24:34.438
both two children, although it's more made in a

24:34.464 --> 24:39.178
language for adults, but indirectly, it seems that it

24:39.204 --> 24:41.820
affects sometimes other members in the family.

24:43.350 --> 24:43.786
Okay.

24:43.848 --> 24:47.062
So there was the daily aspect of

24:47.076 --> 24:53.078
self reflection, and then after that, you

24:53.104 --> 24:56.006
jumped into your normal business life.

24:56.068 --> 25:01.178
And so now that you look back two years and

25:01.204 --> 25:04.898
a half later, other things that you want to add

25:04.984 --> 25:08.678
or to make the picture more complete, or do you

25:08.704 --> 25:11.320
think that you have mentioned the most important things?

25:14.030 --> 25:17.478
I think what I did realize, coming back to

25:17.504 --> 25:21.906
work and then coming into contact with other people

25:21.968 --> 25:25.914
that went through burnout or depression or had very

25:25.952 --> 25:30.022
high stress symptoms, that there is a wide variety

25:30.166 --> 25:35.394
in how people are helped and what information they

25:35.432 --> 25:38.180
have and what they know about it. Yeah.

25:38.750 --> 25:41.010
And it does seem to have a big

25:41.060 --> 25:45.234
impact on the success rate of view of

25:45.392 --> 25:50.326
feeling good and being very effective, efficient.

25:50.518 --> 25:52.606
What do you mean with wide variety?

25:52.678 --> 25:54.774
I'm not sure if I understand that.

25:54.812 --> 26:00.578
Well, there are big differences.

26:00.734 --> 26:04.978
So you have people who recover well because in

26:05.004 --> 26:09.838
your company you can compare with one of the

26:09.864 --> 26:14.474
highest burnout ratios in our company, in our industry.

26:14.642 --> 26:16.102
So there's quite a lot of

26:16.116 --> 26:18.540
people that I can connect with.

26:20.190 --> 26:24.430
And then you see differences in you have people

26:24.480 --> 26:27.480
that are absent for a very long time. Yes.

26:28.170 --> 26:31.670
Sometimes two, three years that people are absent.

26:31.790 --> 26:34.102
That makes me feel sad because most

26:34.236 --> 26:36.410
of those cases could have been prevented.

26:36.470 --> 26:40.438
And as a medical doctor, that hurts. It hurts a lot.

26:40.464 --> 26:43.738
And also it hurts me to see that when they come

26:43.764 --> 26:48.238
back that they are not always fully recovered and they have

26:48.264 --> 26:53.042
such a high risk to fall again, that's interesting because it's

26:53.066 --> 26:56.542
maybe not about the program as much, but I have a

26:56.556 --> 26:59.640
vision, but I would like to hear your vision on it.

27:00.570 --> 27:03.982
If you now after this experience, you see a

27:03.996 --> 27:07.558
person that you say this person has recovered well

27:07.644 --> 27:11.026
and has finished the process in the right way,

27:11.208 --> 27:14.950
and this person is going to have a relapse.

27:15.450 --> 27:18.334
Do you have an idea what makes you

27:18.372 --> 27:22.018
predict the difference, how you can see the

27:22.044 --> 27:25.366
difference between both groups of people?

27:25.428 --> 27:27.240
Because I see that a lot.

27:29.590 --> 27:33.458
I'm not trained as you are, but you do see

27:33.484 --> 27:35.546
a lot, even in just meeting the people and talking

27:35.608 --> 27:38.714
with them in the way they interact with others and

27:38.752 --> 27:41.078
the way that they put a lot of limitations on

27:41.104 --> 27:44.906
themselves, the ones who are going to relapse for me.

27:45.028 --> 27:52.218
So it's like they are overprotective always putting strong boundaries

27:52.254 --> 27:55.526
on what is possible and what's not possible, talking a

27:55.528 --> 27:59.702
lot about their burnout, saying that they need to do

27:59.716 --> 28:01.818
a lot to prevent a new burnout.

28:01.914 --> 28:06.580
So they're already talking it's happening

28:07.210 --> 28:09.446
or they want to convince others. Yeah.

28:09.508 --> 28:12.698
Or want to convince others and they need to be put

28:12.724 --> 28:16.578
in very protected jobs with not a lot of stress.

28:16.614 --> 28:18.938
And to be honest, that's what I always say,

28:18.964 --> 28:22.374
like, okay, where are those jobs without stress?

28:22.422 --> 28:24.810
And how do you define stress?

28:24.990 --> 28:28.626
Because I think even a librarian can have stress.

28:28.758 --> 28:31.778
So where are you going to end up if

28:31.804 --> 28:34.420
you're going to put these limitations onto yourself?

28:34.810 --> 28:36.590
So for me, there is still a lot of

28:36.640 --> 28:39.062
work for these people to do to work on.

28:39.256 --> 28:40.818
How do I see stress?

28:40.974 --> 28:42.530
How do I work with stress?

28:42.970 --> 28:46.274
And it's unfortunate to see that they didn't get

28:46.312 --> 28:50.522
these lines throughout the period that they were ill.

28:50.596 --> 28:52.358
Now I don't see it from the negative side because

28:52.384 --> 28:56.354
I also know that there are options to solve this.

28:56.452 --> 28:59.282
I really hope that these people find a

28:59.296 --> 29:04.240
way to create support for their specific situation.

29:05.290 --> 29:09.686
But it's unfortunate to see but it reminds me,

29:09.808 --> 29:12.054
a colleague of mine who is also in burnout

29:12.102 --> 29:18.220
and stress management medical doctor also, he calls that

29:19.030 --> 29:21.546
some of those people, that they have the missionary

29:21.618 --> 29:24.638
syndrome, like if they're on a mission and they

29:24.664 --> 29:28.646
want either to convert others to the way they

29:28.828 --> 29:33.110
are cured and then the other ones were overprotective.

29:33.730 --> 29:37.718
And I have the impression that is quite often and

29:37.744 --> 29:40.000
that's what we try to avoid with a program.

29:41.230 --> 29:45.510
Many ways of helping are normative.

29:45.630 --> 29:48.158
And they say how the end result

29:48.244 --> 29:52.094
should be and what someone should reach.

29:52.252 --> 29:57.160
And by putting norms, I have the impression that they

29:57.790 --> 30:01.578
stay within the problem because if you enter a burnout

30:01.674 --> 30:05.162
quite often, it's because you up to perfectionist or you

30:05.176 --> 30:07.060
want to do too much and so on.

30:07.390 --> 30:12.218
And if there's not this spontaneous self reflection that

30:12.244 --> 30:17.102
we try to facilitate partially in the program, then

30:17.296 --> 30:20.174
you are not correcting yourself to where you want

30:20.212 --> 30:23.682
to be deeply, but you are trying to adapt

30:23.706 --> 30:27.342
to a norm, just like in the traditional medical

30:27.426 --> 30:30.558
medicine where the doctor makes a medical prescription.

30:30.714 --> 30:33.374
And if you have a cancer, you have to

30:33.412 --> 30:36.602
hope that your doctor makes that medical prescription because

30:36.736 --> 30:39.066
there is a probably the best solution.

30:39.258 --> 30:42.734
And if you need antibiotics, it's probably best

30:42.772 --> 30:45.546
that the doctor prescribes the right antibiotic.

30:45.678 --> 30:52.394
But in stress related issues, if you don't find the way

30:52.432 --> 30:56.078
you want to be yourself and you cannot align who you

30:56.104 --> 31:00.050
are with who you want to be, then you will probably

31:00.160 --> 31:05.082
repeat the same mistakes and quite often it makes me suffer

31:05.106 --> 31:10.130
that so many people get in the hands of people who

31:10.180 --> 31:14.320
have good intentions in coaching others.

31:16.630 --> 31:19.574
The most risks I see quite often if they have

31:19.612 --> 31:26.258
been coached by ex burnout patients or people who have

31:26.284 --> 31:29.294
had the burnout but did not recover themselves and then

31:29.332 --> 31:33.100
start a coaching practice, I see that quite often.

31:34.570 --> 31:37.958
For instance, if I look at you now here in the

31:37.984 --> 31:45.762
interview, it's like you are grounded in your body and yourself

31:45.956 --> 31:51.680
and those people who did not yet finish the process.

31:52.190 --> 31:54.634
You see there is some tension,

31:54.682 --> 31:57.740
there is some cautiousness in that.

31:59.630 --> 32:00.620
That's interesting.

32:02.210 --> 32:02.960
Okay.

32:04.070 --> 32:06.174
Any other things you wanted to share?

32:06.332 --> 32:08.838
No, I think that's it then I thank you a lot.

32:08.864 --> 32:10.374
I'm very happy that you want to

32:10.412 --> 32:13.386
share your experience with some people who

32:13.448 --> 32:17.214
want to know more about this issues. Thanks a lot. Okay.

32:17.312 --> 32:17.640
You're welcome.

Some Physicians testify:

Participants in the program discover within a few weeks which solution can help them to once again enjoy life. For each participant, the solution looks completely different, but they mostly regard the little things in life.

Eric Boydens, MD, doctor and burnout expert, tells about how his patients experience this self-help program (audio in Dutch)

We are sorry, but the video you tried to view was not found. If you think this is an error on our part, please contact us using the contact form.

Eric Boydens, MD, tells in this video:

"When people tell me that they have visited the website '15Minutes4Me.com', then it generally strikes me that it has been a good tool for them, both through guidance and by helping them gain insight into themselves through self-help. People say: 'I receive a number of questions which I consider and work with, which help me see how I develop. I receive feedback, which is important to me at that moment.' I must say that the people telling me this are generally very active, in the sense that they want to do their own work. They do not need to be given many instructions on how to find solutions to their problems in life, which eventually leads them to '15Minutes4Me.com'. Especially in the beginning, when they are very tired and isolated at home, the online application gives them a good starting point. Thank you."

Frans V., founder and manager of his own business:

Because of these exercises, I have learned to focus on myself. Now, when I feel stress coming up, I breathe deeply, take a half-minute break, and pull myself back together by doing one of these exercises. I have also discussed the principles with my employees, and some of them use them, too. And I am surprised how well clients respond to them. They experience more attention and time, and their customer satisfaction has increased, while I used to worry that I would neglect them, by listening to my body more.

Marianne K., student with exam stress, did not believe that she would pass her exams. After this program, she testifies:

These techniques have helped me. I accepted that not everything can be perfect, and finished the most important things I could in the time I had. I passed my exams. This has most definitely helped!

Dora V., mother of Thomas:

I was looking for a program to chance my behavior and habits ... A few weeks after starting this program, I had a very difficult moment in school with my son, where he got bullied, which made me feel like I would explode as my response usually is to get very angry and react impulsively ... I managed to have a conversation in a peaceful manner, meaning I got a response from them ... the behavior of the teacher and the principal was completely different because my behavior was different, meaning that we had a successful conversation after which I returned home feeling great...

Maria B., housewife:

I definitely feel development as I know how much this program supports me. It is really a learning program where you slowly improve through how engaged you are and how willing you are to learn. This cannot be done without the techniques and the build-up which is offered.

Anita F., executive secretary:

This session has brought me insight about what happens with my body during stress(peaks). If I can recognize the signals my body gives and accept them, then I can also understand where the anxiety comes from. This way I can take care of the cause and reduce my stress. I am aware that this will set a lot into motion. I also know that this will be a process. I sincerely thank you for this opportunity!

Several literal quotes from the daily online answers from several participants:(1*)

Feedback on the program:

  • I felt a personal connection during these online sessions.
  • This program structures my thoughts, opposing my natural inclination to worrying. Now I can think in a focused way and move forward.
  • You cannot run from yourself anymore, the build-up in the questions requires you to think and to reflect.
  • These question make me think more "detailed" about myself, and I end up with focused solutions.
  • I am enthusiastic about having regained my own enthusiasm.
  • This program requires a clear commitment from my side, meaning I cannot ignore it anymore.
  • I do not need much to make the connection.
  • Clever program. The layout is simple and user-friendly.

Several answers to the question "What was most useful in this program for you today?"

  • Observing the three moments in which my stress was reduced today.
  • Writing down my goals in life.
  • Useful to see in hindsight if my goals are reached, or whether I have shifted my goals.
  • Making me think and making unique choices (just having 1 main priority etc)
  • Interesting to see some theory behind how everything works
  • Repetition until it becomes automatic
  • Synthesizing where I see changes
  • Determining my priority for tomorrow
  • The tips for controlling my perfectionism
  • Getting even more new exercises to try out, and being persistent in the self-reflections
  • Stimulating reflections
  • The new questions
  • The syntheses are valuable for seeing progression
  • Synthesizing questions which return, but still are difficult to fill out ever time; they make you think again
  • Reflecting upon myself, where is progress found and what do I need to work on
  • Reflection on what I am doing
  • Getting back on track after almost relapsing
  • Trying to be content with what you have
  • Considering an old habit
  • Trying to change the habit
  • Trying to think differently in anxiety and stress
  • practising other thoughts
  • Looking at yourself from a different perspective
  • Making peace with limitations
  • Making choices
  • The writing down of my choices in itself
  • Thinking about feelings
  • Describing and acknowledging feelings
  • The video with theory about stress & anxiety
  • Being nicer to myself
  • Accepting myself

Question: "What have you successfully done, accomplished, or learned by following this program this week?"

  • Not to respond too impulsively and personally
  • I am more satisfied with small things and have improved perspectives.
  • I used to have awful Monday blues every week, and I still do now and again but I can deal with this more quickly
  • I can calm myself down more easily in stressful situations, with many concrete examples at work and in raising my daughter
  • I am more confident nowadays when speaking to people: both people "behind the counter in a stupid store" and people at work
  • I went swimming with my daughter, she found it fantastic which I, in turn, found fantastic
  • Doing my daily tasks in a more relaxed manner
  • Being less sceptical - listening more
  • I have been happy all day and made people laugh a few times
  • Went jogging for 1 hour in the afternoon, then went to the sauna
  • Spent time with my daughter calmly
  • I have become more mature over a short period of time
  • I am more confident when addressing people
  • Again, I can think more relatively
  • Better mood at the breakfast table, more communication with family members
  • Learning to enjoy myself
  • Dealing with the cause of bad thoughts
  • Writing down things that occupy my mind when I cannot fall asleep, like the things that need to happen the next day
  • Cooking a nice meal for children and their partner
  • Forcing yourself to think of something else when you feel like you are starting to worry
  • Partying and dancing with friends until early morning
  • Thinking about pleasant, relaxing things
  • If something hurts me personally, to wait a while and look objectively at the happening later on
  • Dealing with negative processes instead of thinking about them. Solved negative case does not work on the system.
  • Putting things into context, not making them more important or dramatic than they are
  • Letting colleagues know when I use this different working method, so that they understand why
  • Restoring contact with friends
  • Did something pleasant, namely an evening at the theater
  • Stopping for a while and doing something else when this is useful (not before them, not even when distracted)
  • Taking those peak times into account, that really helps me, I get much more done, then, during the low moments
  • Respecting my moments of rest, despite everything that has to be done; continuing will cause me to feel worse on a long-term basis
  • I can do something, or play sports, to win over my worrying thoughts
  • Making agreements with those concerned, being transparent about what I prioritize and why, and consequently acting upon this
  • Dealing with problems from a distance seems to positively influence my sensitivity to stress
  • Take things as they are at work, take more time, stressing less + stopped smoking
  • Closing the door after work
  • I see large processes more clearly and can constantly refer to them for the team
  • I can give my important tasks a more central spot, and take the small tasks in-between (instead of the other way around)
  • Planning my time in a different way
  • It requires me to keep working on it instead of doing 100 other practical things
  • It makes it so that I can tell colleagues more easily when I really am not available, and afterwards got results which kickstarted other useful processes
  • It makes everything just a little bit more realistic
  • Helps me to allocate time to larger tasks, needed to continue with them

(1) These quotes are literally copied or translated from the answers which were given by participants in the online program, yet without a name in order to respect privacy and anonymity. This explains why some sentences are not formulated in a grammatically correct manner. You notice that some participants focus more on private goals, while others focus more on professional goals. Most of the choices or solutions which the participants state here are solutions which were not suggested by the program, but which they rather discovered themselves with the help of the process of self-reflection which we induce. You will notice that solutions which work for one person are completely irrelevant for another. That is why we help the participants to use their own solutions and choices themselves.

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