When people tell me as a GP that they follow '15Minutes4Me.com', what strikes me most is the fact that it has been a good help for them towards counselling, but also towards self-help to gain insight. People tell me "I get a number of questions that I dwell on, that I can work on and that I can actually see well, how do I evolve here.

What makes 15Minutes4Me.com unique is its online availability, which greatly lowers the threshold to follow the self-help program daily. By combining a personalized approach with a strong story, 15 minutes a day suddenly becomes very meaningful.

I specifically recommend the use of "15Minutes4Me.com" for patients who are exhausted or "terrified" at work AND are sufficiently cognitively approachable. The website has also The website has also proven useful while waiting for personal psychotherapy and as a complement for already started psychotherapeutic consultations and coaching.

I sincerely feel that the daily self-help program '15Minutes4Me.com' is a useful tool for a lot of people, and especially in these COVID times.I see as a general practitioner in the progress reports that people really progress and they and they get courage and energy from this!

This daily self-help program '15Minutes4Me.com' has helped me personally and has also been well received by several of my patients. First personally, I got rid of the negative thoughts at the time I used it, and it has helped me to think positively, and to function better, both psychologically and physically. Secondly, my patients can follow it all days. One patient was looking bad, but after a few online sessions I saw her jogging, active, physically because her brain was working better and thinking more positively than otherwise.

My patients experience their daily '15Minutes4Me.com' moment online as approachable, simple, fast, efficient and achievable because in just 15 minutes a day, in a quiet way, they see results, learn to think differently and begin to live again the way they wish to life, becoming back that person they have wanted to be and become for years.

Any recovery process takes time. A daily support of fifteen minutes helps to keep the focus on what is already going well. focus on what is already going well. 15Minutes4Me.com is an excellent program for this.

"1 in 5 workers suffers from burnout.... What is clear is that it is precisely this 'too-many' choices is what causes us to threaten sooner or later to crash into the amusement park of life. And that only making a few unambiguous choices can help us - at best - preventively. preventively - can help. Or disconnect, that's of our time. Mindfulness for example, disconnecting emotion from facts. Or via a self-help program online: 15Minutes4Me.com"
"From 'Borderline Times' p.219 by Prof. Dr. Dirk De Wachter"

The self-help program 15Minutes4Me.com is approachable. A smaller step than actually going to a therapist.... Ultimately much better than trying to follow a good self-help book... That you read, it's engaging, it seems helpful but... you don't engage with it. No feedback, no encouragement.
15Minutes4Me.com has response and encourages engagement.

Some people are not able, or do not feel up to it, for whatever reasons, to see a therapist in person. More and more are looking on the Internet for help, shelter, support, advice. Here they find themselves in a jungle of offerings and marketing. It is therefore of exceptionally important to be able to distinguish between quality, empathic and efficient guidance and worthless set-ups with sometimes deceptive intentions.
In this regard, I can recommend '15Minutes4Me.com' as a high quality and very reliable program that can present very beautiful results.

Corona times have shown that remote psychological assistance can be an aid alongside face-to-face therapy for certain patients and certain feelings, such as stress and anxiety. When things get a little too much, especially the self-knowledge that grows from going through the daily session, will have a positive impact on the well-being of both adolescents and adults.

My patients are often well served by the daily self-help program '15Minutes4Me.com' and so it convinces me to continue offering this option online. How can I best describe this? In my experience, initially the complaints and the isolation with those complaints are at the forefront. Patients take a first step by coming to a consultation and talking about this, it It is still very fragile and breakable, they are searching and are in a certain frame of mind. thinking.

Dr. Philippe Mast, MD, Urologist



00:00.000 --> 00:02.482
Hello, I'm Philip Mast.

00:02.566 --> 00:07.170
I'm urologist in Belgium and I had the

00:07.280 --> 00:14.513
opportunity to test myself the '15Minutes4Me.com'

00:14.810 --> 00:18.990
program, which was very helpful in my personal view

00:19.100 --> 00:22.050
and in my personal experience to get out of

00:22.160 --> 00:24.726
negativism and get positive again.

00:24.908 --> 00:27.594
It was very important for me.

00:27.632 --> 00:29.326
It broadened my horizon.

00:29.458 --> 00:31.542
It put me back on the rails

00:31.662 --> 00:34.926
and was a very, very good experience.

00:35.108 --> 00:38.170
It helped me in contact with my patients.

00:38.230 --> 00:41.838
It helped me also in my daily practice and with the

00:41.864 --> 00:46.554
patients, with my employees and also in my private life.

00:46.712 --> 00:51.217
It helped me to get positive thoughts, to

00:51.167 --> 00:55.129
get a new or a better feeling.

00:55.080 --> 00:57.918
And it was necessary to do it every day.

00:58.064 --> 01:00.620
And it helped because it was also

01:01.370 --> 01:03.560
very easy to do at home.

01:04.430 --> 01:08.650
It has a lot threshold and it gives excellent

01:08.710 --> 01:12.140
results if you persist and do it every day.

01:13.970 --> 01:16.590
You told me that you have several patients that you refer

01:16.640 --> 01:21.342
to the program, and you told me some concrete samples of

01:21.416 --> 01:23.850
what people told you how it affected their lives.

01:23.960 --> 01:25.026
Can you expand on that?

01:25.088 --> 01:29.540
Well, the negativism got away.

01:30.110 --> 01:34.282
They were thinking differently, and they were forced

01:34.366 --> 01:38.398
by the program to think positive and positively.

01:38.434 --> 01:41.574
And this has a great impact, they told me, on

01:41.612 --> 01:45.402
their life because they got out of the shell again

01:45.476 --> 01:48.694
and they were able to put some context.

01:48.742 --> 01:52.278
They have a positive self esteem again, and

01:52.304 --> 01:54.666
it was very important for these people.

01:54.788 --> 01:57.438
They told me also that you have to go on

01:57.464 --> 02:01.170
with it for quite a time, and afterwards it gets

02:01.220 --> 02:05.526
automatically positive thinking another way to view things.

02:05.648 --> 02:08.780
And if it gets worse because you don't do it

02:09.110 --> 02:12.282
for a while, you can put it back on and

02:12.356 --> 02:16.398
go again and have a good effect of the program. Yeah.

02:16.424 --> 02:19.038
So you mean that if someone stops a little bit

02:19.064 --> 02:22.690
too early and they have a beginning of a relapse

02:22.750 --> 02:26.514
that they can take on take on again and that

02:26.552 --> 02:30.618
they will go on the rails back very quickly again.

02:30.764 --> 02:33.138
Then you told me one other example.

02:33.224 --> 02:36.414
You told about someone of your patients that

02:36.452 --> 02:38.790
you did not only see psychological effects, but

02:38.840 --> 02:43.174
that even physiological energy went up quite shortly

02:43.222 --> 02:45.618
after they started the program. Right.

02:45.704 --> 02:49.760
Because I saw them while having running, and

02:50.570 --> 02:53.322
she looked very bad at the first time.

02:53.336 --> 02:57.102
And then I expected her to say that she had to go

02:57.116 --> 03:00.018
to the program '15mins4me.com', and she did it.

03:00.104 --> 03:03.762
And the weeks afterwards, she looked very much better

03:03.896 --> 03:06.718
and told me afterwards that it was very helpful

03:06.814 --> 03:09.920
to get her in the positive thinking again, and

03:10.490 --> 03:13.890
physiologically and physically even she was better.

03:14.060 --> 03:14.466
Yeah.

03:14.528 --> 03:17.422
So you see like a kind of double impact,

03:17.566 --> 03:21.270
because on one side, the program works on the

03:21.320 --> 03:24.678
brain patterns and the thoughts, but indirectly it has

03:24.704 --> 03:26.866
a kind of physiological effect on the brain.

03:26.938 --> 03:29.070
I think the brain works better.

03:29.240 --> 03:31.686
It has more power to do with

03:31.688 --> 03:34.234
the other things than thinking negatively.

03:34.402 --> 03:40.278
That was my experience too when I was getting on

03:40.304 --> 03:44.430
the computer to do it that for myself the negative

03:44.930 --> 03:49.820
ideas went away and the positive thinking gives you more

03:51.890 --> 03:55.578
possibilities of having your brain work better and do things

03:55.604 --> 04:01.650
that you need every day working, running, to do some physical

04:02.390 --> 04:07.110
things have envy to do these things and not got

04:07.160 --> 04:09.370
back in your shell.

04:09.490 --> 04:11.550
If you look at your patients and you would

04:11.600 --> 04:16.038
compare doing this daily automatic exercise with this program

04:16.124 --> 04:21.137
compared to going to a psychotherapist, what are the

04:21.164 --> 04:24.402
differences, what's more useful when according to well I

04:24.416 --> 04:28.760
think that the low threshold of these possibilities with

04:29.390 --> 04:33.690
'15minutes4me.com' is an amazing great thing

04:33.740 --> 04:36.438
because otherwise you go once in a week once

04:36.464 --> 04:39.082
in a month to a psychologist or a psychiatrist

04:39.166 --> 04:42.618
and afterwards you don't have follow up here you

04:42.644 --> 04:45.034
give your own follow up every day and that's

04:45.082 --> 04:48.960
helps in getting these positive effects.Okay, great.Thanks.

Dr. Luc Isebaert, MD, Psychiatrist:



00:01.330 --> 00:01.710
Okay.

00:01.820 --> 00:05.034
Hello.

00:05.192 --> 00:06.680
Nice.

00:08.029 --> 00:08.394
Yeah.

00:08.432 --> 00:12.318
Look, we've been working on this program for a while,

00:12.404 --> 00:15.138
and I wanted to exchange some ideas with you to

00:15.164 --> 00:18.858
see if we can share some with public about the

00:18.884 --> 00:24.262
program, because I just want to tell you one observation.

00:24.346 --> 00:28.078
At a certain point, we had developed the first version

00:28.114 --> 00:32.878
of the program, and I invited some of my private

00:32.914 --> 00:36.294
patients to come at the same time to me and

00:36.332 --> 00:39.066
at the same time do the online program. Okay.

00:39.188 --> 00:42.834
So the online program and the sessions with

00:42.872 --> 00:45.378
you were in parallel, so to speak. Yeah.

00:45.464 --> 00:46.854
Because I was curious to find

00:46.892 --> 00:48.390
out what would be the difference.

00:48.560 --> 00:52.494
And then one person after two weeks, came to

00:52.532 --> 00:56.466
me and she said, wow, it's like having every

00:56.528 --> 00:58.386
day a ten minute session with you.

00:58.508 --> 01:00.762
Yeah, that's right. I can't imagine that.

01:00.776 --> 01:04.558
But that's one of the big advantages of program

01:04.593 --> 01:14.482
like this is that there's a little push in

01:14.496 --> 01:20.340
the right direction every day so you don't stop

01:25.030 --> 01:28.350
if one wants to change in the right direction.

01:28.530 --> 01:32.678
Some days are more difficult than others, and we are

01:32.824 --> 01:37.430
tempted not to do anything, not to do the exercise

01:37.810 --> 01:41.162
we should be doing or not to think about the

01:41.236 --> 01:43.382
things we should be thinking about what area.

01:43.576 --> 01:47.846
And whereas if you get this little

01:47.908 --> 01:51.938
small boost every day, then the good

01:51.964 --> 01:56.030
new habits will start much more easily.

01:56.830 --> 02:00.230
That's what reminds me, because one of the things that

02:00.340 --> 02:03.026
we put as a central key was your ID.

02:03.208 --> 02:05.702
That psychotherapy is not about finding a

02:05.716 --> 02:08.521
solution, but it's about first finding a

02:08.536 --> 02:10.638
solution to create a new habit.

02:10.674 --> 02:13.458
And at once you know how to develop a new habit.

02:13.494 --> 02:14.690
You still have to train it.

02:14.740 --> 02:17.858
Just like when I'm doing muscle training, if I would

02:17.884 --> 02:21.638
only train my right arm muscle, I will have a

02:21.664 --> 02:24.794
hypotrophic arm and my left arm will be underdeveloped.

02:24.892 --> 02:25.442
Absolutely.

02:25.576 --> 02:28.626
And that's the impression that I get with clients

02:28.698 --> 02:33.482
who are doing the online program, at least if

02:33.496 --> 02:37.274
they have the motivation to do daily exercise, because

02:37.312 --> 02:39.074
they get the invitation and it's up to them

02:39.112 --> 02:40.910
to choose if they want or not.

02:41.020 --> 02:45.002
But one interesting thing with this program is

02:45.016 --> 02:47.200
that you get the invitation every day. Yeah.

02:47.530 --> 02:51.662
So when you are invited every day, while that's human,

02:51.796 --> 02:55.982
you are inclined to respond to the invitation, whereas the

02:55.996 --> 02:57.914
invitation, you have to do it out of your own initiative.

02:57.952 --> 03:00.074
Yeah.

03:00.232 --> 03:03.038
And especially what I see with patients or

03:03.064 --> 03:05.678
people who have appeared when there is an

03:05.704 --> 03:08.990
anxiety attack or there is a deeper depression.

03:09.430 --> 03:11.882
What happens quite often in real life is

03:11.896 --> 03:16.614
that they will stop thinking about their progress

03:16.722 --> 03:19.298
and even they might cancel an appointment. Absolutely.

03:19.384 --> 03:21.182
But with the online system. Absolutely.

03:21.316 --> 03:24.710
It's like every day they get a reminder, and even

03:24.760 --> 03:27.890
if they would skip some days, it's like one day

03:27.940 --> 03:31.962
they will push the link again and they get restarted.

03:31.986 --> 03:32.860
Yes, absolutely.

03:34.570 --> 03:37.120
That's a big advantage of this kind of program.

03:38.650 --> 03:38.978
Yeah.

03:39.004 --> 03:41.198
Because quite a lot of people ask me this

03:41.224 --> 03:43.646
question, why would I go for an online program?

03:43.768 --> 03:48.318
And I found some answers because I've seen businessmen,

03:48.354 --> 03:51.386
for instance, who are disciplined to do daily something,

03:51.508 --> 03:54.638
but they don't know when the business settle the

03:54.664 --> 03:57.880
clients don't allow them to do a certain point,

03:59.050 --> 04:01.298
and that makes it easier for them.

04:01.384 --> 04:03.700
It's one of the observations that I made.

04:04.030 --> 04:08.154
Also question of a personality style.

04:08.202 --> 04:11.222
Some people like to confide in someone else.

04:11.356 --> 04:13.334
They like to talk with someone else

04:13.372 --> 04:18.399
and get advice from someone else.

04:19.570 --> 04:23.860
People like that probably will benefit a lot from

04:24.430 --> 04:29.342
face to face psychotherapy, but also people who want

04:29.356 --> 04:32.726
to take their life into their own hands and

04:32.848 --> 04:37.802
who say, I want to achieve this only I

04:37.816 --> 04:41.154
need some advice on how to achieve some guidance

04:41.202 --> 04:49.415
on how to achieve this.It is like compass and a map and then I will go my journey.

04:49.415 --> 04:53.352
Each day, it is like compasss and a map.

04:53.352 --> 04:55.449
Then, we are on the road of our own life.

04:55.910 --> 04:58.280
Every day there's some fork to take.

04:59.090 --> 05:03.502
So if every day you have this small input, then there's

05:03.526 --> 05:06.980
no chances after you say on the right way, then if

05:07.430 --> 05:11.300
the input comes only within a point and every two weeks.

05:13.890 --> 05:14.290
Yeah.

05:14.340 --> 05:17.278
So actually, if I try to summarize that, what

05:17.304 --> 05:20.278
you were saying is that personality style, that some

05:20.304 --> 05:23.950
people rather like to have a talk, while other

05:24.000 --> 05:27.286
people rather need guidance on our map.

05:27.408 --> 05:30.458
And some people prefer to be more self driven

05:30.494 --> 05:32.650
and others take it from the empathic relationship.

05:32.760 --> 05:33.322
Absolutely.

05:33.456 --> 05:34.582
That might be a difference.

05:34.656 --> 05:39.300
Why one has an inclination to an online program.

05:40.170 --> 05:44.230
Probably both are beneficial as well from an online

05:44.400 --> 05:47.702
program as from a face to face psychotherapy.

05:47.786 --> 05:49.834
But one will be more inclined to choose

05:49.872 --> 05:51.358
the one than the other, but both will

05:51.384 --> 05:54.166
be beneficial and build both cases, I think.

05:54.288 --> 05:55.702
Yeah, that's true.

05:55.776 --> 05:58.860
So you could even combine both if you want. Absolutely.

06:04.110 --> 06:06.430
Some other topics that I was thinking about

06:06.540 --> 06:11.062
is what I saw when people come online

06:11.136 --> 06:13.066
for the program, what happens quite a lot is

06:13.188 --> 06:17.026
that people seem to be quite confused about

06:17.088 --> 06:18.758
what's the difference between stress

06:18.794 --> 06:20.650
and depression and anxiety.

06:21.150 --> 06:24.962
And quite often we see in real psychotherapy

06:24.986 --> 06:27.300
practice that there is a mixture of both.

06:28.890 --> 06:30.398
In most cases, there's a mixture

06:30.434 --> 06:35.354
of anxiety and depression are very

06:35.392 --> 06:37.926
closely related, also neurophysiologically.

06:37.998 --> 06:39.674
And what happens in the brain when

06:39.772 --> 06:42.482
anxiety and depression is very closely related. Yeah.

06:42.496 --> 06:47.184
It's like similar areas in the brain. Similar biological mechanism.

06:50.362 --> 06:54.030
The same drugs that we use for treating anxiety. Yes.

06:54.080 --> 06:55.438
For treating depression.

06:55.594 --> 07:01.102
And in large manner, the same drugs because the processes

07:01.126 --> 07:03.690
in the brain are so similar. With this explain

07:03.800 --> 07:06.018
I remember that some years ago you told me

07:06.044 --> 07:08.430
about your research that you did in the hospital.

07:09.230 --> 07:11.622
Actually, it was on alcohol addiction. Yes.

07:11.696 --> 07:14.778
And one of the things that was quite remarkable when you

07:14.804 --> 07:18.918
told me is that you told that after several years you

07:18.944 --> 07:23.166
do a follow up study that those people who say that

07:23.228 --> 07:28.914
they got success with the treatment, that most of them also

07:29.012 --> 07:32.598
say that other problems than the main problem for what they

07:32.624 --> 07:37.074
came, like anxiety or depression, others also got solved also if

07:37.112 --> 07:39.920
they did not directly work on it. Absolutely.

07:40.250 --> 07:44.394
That was a very interesting finding, that while

07:44.432 --> 07:47.022
we treated people for the alcohol problems and

07:47.036 --> 07:52.522
they solved these alcohol problems, our programs, I

07:52.536 --> 07:54.194
must say, are very brief.

07:54.242 --> 07:59.578
People if they are hospitalized for three weeks or if

07:59.604 --> 08:04.642
we see them on ambulatory basis, they come to the

08:04.656 --> 08:08.662
hospital to speak with the doctor or the psychotherapist or

08:08.676 --> 08:14.314
whatever, the number of sessions is also quite low.

08:14.352 --> 08:17.122
It's not more than five sessions in general.

08:17.256 --> 08:20.734
So there is no time to speak a lot

08:20.772 --> 08:25.774
about their depressed state or their anxiety or whatever,

08:25.932 --> 08:29.362
which most people with alcohol problems also have here.

08:29.436 --> 08:33.837
So there's no time to treat these problems, too.

08:33.924 --> 08:36.134
And what we found and that was extremely

08:36.182 --> 08:38.198
interesting is that when they solved their alcohol

08:38.234 --> 08:43.174
problem afterwards, they showed that they also could

08:43.212 --> 08:46.402
solve their own other problems on their own.

08:46.596 --> 08:50.542
Once they have started solving their problems,

08:50.676 --> 08:53.698
they don't need anybody else.

08:53.724 --> 08:55.594
They don't need to come back

08:55.632 --> 08:57.910
for another both of therapy.

09:00.790 --> 09:03.326
Would you say that this is like they learn

09:03.508 --> 09:09.126
to learn to solve problems and this is something

09:09.188 --> 09:13.158
that the program like this can do. Because

09:13.184 --> 09:15.474
on one side they learn to learn to solve problems.

09:15.572 --> 09:19.074
And then my question would be how would you

09:19.112 --> 09:22.938
explain them that they are building these habits in

09:22.964 --> 09:24.870
such a way that they will not relapse?

09:25.430 --> 09:27.342
Yeah, that's a very interesting question, too.

09:27.356 --> 09:30.730
We have that question about the habits foundation.

09:30.790 --> 09:34.362
Well, to put it very briefly now we can discuss it

09:34.376 --> 09:36.894
at all the point we can discuss it a little more.

09:36.992 --> 09:45.058
But to put it very briefly, what happens is that whatever we

09:45.058 --> 09:49.066
do when we do it repeatedly, one can say that's a habit.

09:51.185 --> 09:56.070
Sequence of time you repeat the same, it becomes a habit.

09:56.250 --> 09:59.418
So we can get into the habit of having anxiety

09:59.454 --> 10:04.022
attacks, for instance, when some situation presents itself, or we

10:04.036 --> 10:08.282
can get into the habit of being depressed when there

10:08.296 --> 10:12.206
are too many problems facing us over there.

10:12.388 --> 10:17.378
So you can say that whatever we

10:17.404 --> 10:19.206
do when we do it repeatedly becomes

10:19.218 --> 10:23.390
a habit, even disconnected from the origin.

10:23.500 --> 10:25.358
While we start to have anxiety the

10:25.384 --> 10:27.554
first time or depression the first time,

10:27.652 --> 10:30.678
it can become a habit and treatment.

10:30.774 --> 10:34.034
Our self help should rather focus on breaking the old

10:34.072 --> 10:37.442
habit and establishing a new one rather than looking for

10:37.516 --> 10:40.554
establishing a new habit instead of the old habit.

10:40.722 --> 10:43.310
That's something that occurs in the brain.

10:43.690 --> 10:46.386
When we make a new habit to,put up very briefly,

10:46.458 --> 10:50.054
make a new habit, there are new connections that are made

10:50.092 --> 10:53.574
in the brain, and these connections need to be repeated.

10:53.622 --> 10:56.030
That's again, why a program

10:56.080 --> 10:57.460
like this is so interesting.

10:57.850 --> 11:01.254
Because each time you repeat the new habit,

11:01.362 --> 11:03.894
it becomes better established in the brain.

11:04.002 --> 11:06.254
So if you repeat it very often every day,

11:06.292 --> 11:10.238
for instance, it's much easier to

11:10.324 --> 11:11.934
establish it in the brain.

11:12.102 --> 11:15.326
And then when this new habit is made,

11:15.508 --> 11:18.710
then the old habit is still available.

11:18.820 --> 11:23.562
But the new habit comes instead of the old habit.

11:23.706 --> 11:26.262
And it's just a question of choosing.

11:26.346 --> 11:28.838
Do I want to be depressed or do

11:28.864 --> 11:31.180
I want to go to scuba now?

11:32.810 --> 11:35.060
It's like you have a switch and you can choose.

11:35.690 --> 11:37.258
It may still take some effort,

11:37.294 --> 11:40.422
but you can do it sometimes.

11:40.496 --> 11:42.870
It doesn't take any effort anymore because

11:42.920 --> 11:45.066
the switch stays under right position.

11:45.248 --> 11:46.798
Yeah, if the new habit becomes

11:46.834 --> 11:48.060
more sexy than the old one.

11:48.060 --> 11:51.060
Absolutely. Quite interesting.

11:51.060 --> 11:54.060
New Text

A manager @ a Fintech company:



00:00.610 --> 00:01.522
Hi, Kathleen.

00:01.666 --> 00:03.354
Happy to see you here.

00:03.452 --> 00:05.538
And I'm very grateful that you want

00:05.564 --> 00:07.770
to share some of your experiences.

00:08.870 --> 00:12.022
You are a happy mother, a proud mother

00:12.046 --> 00:15.726
of three children, a happy family, and

00:15.788 --> 00:19.686
you have a career in international company.

00:19.868 --> 00:25.782
And as most people in Western society are doing, we are

00:25.856 --> 00:29.382
rushing because we want to be the best mother and to

00:29.396 --> 00:32.165
be a good employee and to be a good colleague and

00:32.228 --> 00:35.550
to be a good manager and to be good in everything.

00:35.720 --> 00:39.306
And at a certain moment, what I see as a

00:39.308 --> 00:42.078
medical doctor quite often and what we see with the

00:42.224 --> 00:46.014
'15Minutes4Me.com' program, a lot of people, they

00:46.112 --> 00:51.042
hit the borders of what our body can take.

00:51.176 --> 00:53.430
And for some people, they go and burn out.

00:53.480 --> 00:55.938
Others get anxiety, others will get

00:56.084 --> 01:00.354
depressions or other psychosomatic problems.

01:00.512 --> 01:03.560
In your case, it was mainly burn out.

01:03.890 --> 01:10.770
So that almost from one day to another, your body

01:10.820 --> 01:14.278
said, okay, I don't collaborate in the game anymore.

01:14.434 --> 01:17.600
And I'd like to have your experience.

01:17.930 --> 01:21.858
What I want to learn from you and also to be able

01:21.884 --> 01:27.462
to share with people who view is what was helpful to you.

01:27.596 --> 01:30.620
So what did you learn from that experience?

01:31.190 --> 01:34.506
And in the second stage, what did

01:34.568 --> 01:37.734
the program contribute to this help?

01:37.772 --> 01:41.838
So what in general was helpful to you and how did

01:41.864 --> 01:45.462
you find a program and how did that contribute to what

01:45.536 --> 01:48.560
you wanted to change and what you wanted to reach in your life?

01:49.670 --> 01:52.242
So I think if I understand correctly, Paul, your

01:52.376 --> 01:55.314
first question is around what did I learn from

01:55.352 --> 01:59.670
the overall experience, from the burn out itself I guess? Yeah.

01:59.840 --> 02:04.830
And especially from the experience and what helps because

02:04.880 --> 02:08.370
of course, it's more useful that people learn about

02:08.419 --> 02:12.750
what helps than the diagnostic or the medical part.

02:12.800 --> 02:13.158
Yeah.

02:13.244 --> 02:17.118
So I think certainly that what I think, which

02:17.144 --> 02:19.558
is very important, is that you try to prevent

02:19.594 --> 02:23.082
it, because if you are for the people that

02:23.096 --> 02:25.194
are going through it, they probably already know.

02:25.232 --> 02:26.766
For the people that are for the moment,

02:26.828 --> 02:31.902
experiencing very high stress symptoms, it's not a

02:31.916 --> 02:34.278
great moment to hit the wall.

02:34.424 --> 02:36.774
So as you mentioned, you don't see it coming.

02:36.932 --> 02:38.934
If you hit the wall, it's too late.

02:39.092 --> 02:41.660
Now, the good news is that you can get out of it.

02:42.530 --> 02:44.900
I'm kind of a proof of that for myself.

02:47.030 --> 02:51.200
You can get out of it if you follow the right step.

02:51.650 --> 02:54.438
I hear all the stories of people who don't do that.

02:54.584 --> 02:58.050
And I can also share that because I come across

02:58.160 --> 03:01.182
also people that have had a burnout, and then you

03:01.196 --> 03:04.278
still see that there's still some remaining issues that they

03:04.304 --> 03:07.038
are tackling, and then you still wonder, didn't you get

03:07.064 --> 03:09.618
the right help or what have you missed or what

03:09.644 --> 03:11.574
was different for me, that I don't seem to have

03:11.612 --> 03:16.738
these remaining anxiety problems or remaining stress symptoms.

03:16.894 --> 03:17.898
That's interesting.

03:18.044 --> 03:21.860
We certainly want to go deeper on that one also here.

03:22.730 --> 03:25.758
So for me, what I noticed is, okay, you go

03:25.784 --> 03:29.240
into a burnout and then you're confronted with yourself.

03:29.810 --> 03:35.202
So I had a lot of medical support, and one

03:35.216 --> 03:37.458
of the big questions that was asking me is what

03:37.484 --> 03:39.618
are you going to change in your life?

03:39.764 --> 03:42.534
That's the question that doctors are the

03:42.572 --> 03:45.522
people who try to help you. Yeah.

03:45.656 --> 03:47.550
That's quite tough because at that moment

03:47.600 --> 03:50.000
in time you're not feeling so great.

03:50.810 --> 03:53.720
Let's say that you're not in a solution state of mind.

03:54.470 --> 03:56.626
You don't find that quickly solution.

03:56.698 --> 04:00.006
So on your own, that's not so easy to go

04:00.068 --> 04:04.950
through that. Do you mean, like it's probably the most

04:05.000 --> 04:07.674
important question, but at that time it's almost like too

04:07.712 --> 04:09.474
early to answer it or too difficult?

04:09.512 --> 04:10.638
I think it's too difficult

04:10.724 --> 04:13.760
because you're not feeling okay.

04:14.390 --> 04:17.310
You don't know exactly what caused it.

04:17.480 --> 04:22.638
So you first need some relief before you can what

04:22.664 --> 04:24.822
I hear you say, it's like as if it's a

04:24.836 --> 04:27.918
process in different stages where in one stage you need

04:27.944 --> 04:32.118
to relieve the body and in a later stage you

04:32.144 --> 04:34.278
will need to address that deeper questions.

04:34.364 --> 04:35.022
Yeah, certainly.

04:35.096 --> 04:37.640
So there's certainly a resting part in there.

04:38.150 --> 04:41.886
What really helped me with the online program is

04:42.008 --> 04:45.522
it starts up quite slowly in the sense that

04:45.656 --> 04:47.934
it explains you at the start a lot of

04:47.972 --> 04:50.420
concepts about how your mind works.

04:50.870 --> 04:52.098
And those were things that

04:52.124 --> 04:53.780
I actually didn't know before.

04:54.470 --> 04:56.958
So you mean that what was helpful for you?

04:57.104 --> 05:00.186
Is this what we call in our technical words

05:00.248 --> 05:05.302
of psycho education, where we teach in simple, non

05:05.326 --> 05:08.718
medical words how the brain works and what happens

05:08.804 --> 05:11.790
when you get into either burnout or depression or

05:11.840 --> 05:15.690
anxiety so that you have an understanding almost like

05:15.740 --> 05:20.766
biologically what's happening. Because I think something is going

05:20.828 --> 05:22.710
wrong with your heart or with another organ.

05:22.760 --> 05:23.910
You get quite a lot of

05:24.020 --> 05:26.554
great explanations from your doctors.

05:26.722 --> 05:29.142
I didn't get a feeling when I had a

05:29.156 --> 05:31.820
burnout that these type of explanations were given.

05:32.390 --> 05:35.442
And actually you can consider it's an organ as well.

05:35.576 --> 05:37.290
And it works in a certain way.

05:37.400 --> 05:39.810
And the more you understand it, the more

05:39.860 --> 05:42.126
as well you can work with it. Yeah.

05:42.188 --> 05:46.342
So the understanding of the biological, let's say the simplified

05:46.486 --> 05:50.514
explanation of the biological parts of the brain, that was

05:50.552 --> 05:55.518
very useful to you. It is very useful. Certainly. And then the fact that it

05:55.544 --> 06:01.566
is daily, I think that is very crucial. Yeah.

06:01.748 --> 06:03.498
Has that been important to you, the fact

06:03.524 --> 06:05.674
that you have a kind of daily structure

06:05.722 --> 06:10.314
or support or something at home?

06:10.472 --> 06:11.814
I was in the case, I was at home.

06:11.852 --> 06:14.094
I can imagine when people are not at home

06:14.132 --> 06:18.738
yet, but still you are struggling to survive, to

06:18.764 --> 06:21.366
survive your stress into that moment in time.

06:21.488 --> 06:23.527
It's great to know that you have a 15 minutes

06:23.538 --> 06:28.578
daily help for yourself or moments of reflection and that

06:28.604 --> 06:30.702
you don't need to wait for what is it a

06:30.716 --> 06:34.566
typical one month before you see your doctor again?

06:34.688 --> 06:36.210
Two weeks or three weeks.

06:36.380 --> 06:38.540
It's in the evening again that you get

06:39.110 --> 06:41.802
some information or an exercise to do.

06:41.936 --> 06:46.074
And that is a little step.Because

06:46.112 --> 06:47.934
that's interesting what you're saying, because your

06:47.972 --> 06:51.354
experience like this daily report was important.

06:51.512 --> 06:54.030
And sometimes people who didn't follow the program,

06:54.080 --> 06:56.720
they asked me this kind of question like, but

06:57.590 --> 06:59.960
don't you need this human relationship?

07:01.550 --> 07:03.510
How can a program be useful?

07:04.250 --> 07:07.110
Some people say this must be very

07:07.160 --> 07:10.218
anonymous, although I hear some people who

07:10.244 --> 07:12.690
experience the program say the opposite.

07:13.910 --> 07:16.030
How did that relate in comparison

07:16.090 --> 07:20.094
with someone guiding you live?

07:20.192 --> 07:22.182
But you have to drive there and

07:22.376 --> 07:25.954
all the consequences because it's daily.

07:26.002 --> 07:28.220
But it's a program.

07:29.270 --> 07:30.822
I'm not saying that one

07:30.896 --> 07:32.720
can always substitute the others.

07:33.710 --> 07:37.100
I also use the face to face support.

07:37.550 --> 07:41.746
But I do see it certainly has a very big compliment.

07:41.818 --> 07:44.274
And I can also understand for people that are

07:44.312 --> 07:46.638
not in a situation that I was already if

07:46.664 --> 07:48.906
I would have known of this before. Yeah.

07:49.028 --> 07:51.270
More preventive. For more preventive that

07:51.950 --> 07:53.694
it's probably you don't want to

07:53.732 --> 07:57.622
go and see whatever psychologist, coach.

07:57.766 --> 07:59.910
That's what I hear from many people.Because

08:00.080 --> 08:02.746
you don't feel that you're ill, you don't

08:02.818 --> 08:04.494
feel that it's the moment to see them.

08:04.532 --> 08:07.314
Yet there's still taboo around it.

08:07.352 --> 08:11.142
And in that case, I think it is very easy to

08:11.216 --> 08:15.246
start off this program and you probably see even quicker benefits

08:15.368 --> 08:18.930
than in the case when you're already deep in it.

08:19.100 --> 08:22.460
Yeah, that's what I've heard from other people also.

08:23.690 --> 08:25.878
But what you are saying is that

08:25.904 --> 08:28.950
this daily support was very important.

08:29.060 --> 08:30.414
So the fact that there was every

08:30.452 --> 08:33.582
day some type of a guidance. Yeah.

08:33.716 --> 08:39.114
Also because what I also liked is that you start to

08:39.212 --> 08:43.929
kind of test to see how you are different levels.

08:44.110 --> 08:46.650
And it shows it very graphically.

08:47.210 --> 08:49.678
In my case, I think it was very confrontational

08:49.714 --> 08:52.422
to see that I was not doing great.

08:52.496 --> 08:57.882
I already knew that consultant with that as well.

08:58.076 --> 09:02.250
And then actually, you see, because of your

09:02.300 --> 09:05.550
daily follow up, you see an evolution.

09:05.930 --> 09:07.474
And I think that is fantastic.

09:07.522 --> 09:09.690
The fact that you have a kind of feedback from

09:09.740 --> 09:13.506
yourself to yourself through the program. Then you see actually

09:13.568 --> 09:17.730
that it's paying off and it's a quite quick evolution.

09:18.110 --> 09:20.298
I'm not saying you go immediately from red and

09:20.324 --> 09:22.098
to green and so not what is happening.

09:22.184 --> 09:25.098
But you see that through the actions that you

09:25.124 --> 09:30.920
are taking, you see that you are slowly but surely okay.

09:33.150 --> 09:35.242
How does it feel like you have

09:35.256 --> 09:36.814
to motivate yourself to do it?

09:36.852 --> 09:39.982
Was it difficult to of course, you get your

09:39.996 --> 09:43.790
invitation by email, but you still have to decide

09:43.850 --> 09:46.246
to take action to keep following the program.

09:46.308 --> 09:51.022
Was it difficult or was it pretty easy? It's only 15 minutes.

09:51.156 --> 09:51.454
Yeah.

09:51.492 --> 09:56.014
So I think when you're at home and 15 minutes

09:56.052 --> 10:00.082
is certainly not a lot, when you are still working.

10:00.216 --> 10:03.586
And so I've heard of other people that have followed it

10:03.648 --> 10:06.490
then even then the 15 minutes is not a lot.

10:06.600 --> 10:09.050
Do you also get feedbacks of colleagues,

10:09.110 --> 10:12.298
who follow the program and who

10:12.324 --> 10:14.074
are still more in the preventive state?

10:14.112 --> 10:15.934
In the preventive state, yeah. Maybe.

10:16.032 --> 10:19.802
Do you have some reflections on how because it's

10:19.826 --> 10:21.898
interesting to hear how you experienced it, but if

10:21.924 --> 10:25.618
you have feedback from colleagues, how they experienced it

10:25.644 --> 10:29.114
as a kind of more in an earlier preventive

10:29.162 --> 10:31.726
stage? How does it work for them?

10:31.848 --> 10:33.300
I think it's the same.

10:33.750 --> 10:36.910
The first thing that was interesting for them is to

10:36.960 --> 10:42.758
realize that they did have a problem and then that

10:42.784 --> 10:46.994
you can also work on that job because there's so

10:47.032 --> 10:50.680
many different places you can go to.

10:52.150 --> 10:55.278
But there's not a lot people don't

10:55.314 --> 10:57.950
find a lot of trusted places.

11:00.350 --> 11:01.554
There's quite a lot of people

11:01.592 --> 11:02.938
that have followed your programs.

11:02.974 --> 11:06.260
So you do have some evolution over time.

11:06.710 --> 11:10.258
There's some research that has been done so that builds

11:10.294 --> 11:13.314
kind of a trust for people to start using it

11:13.472 --> 11:17.082
because you have to get over that first fear of...

11:17.276 --> 11:19.626
Was that difficult for you when you were looking on

11:19.628 --> 11:24.054
the Internet to decide what to find, which program or which

11:24.092 --> 11:28.940
solution to trust, or was it a difficult search?

11:30.410 --> 11:33.510
I think for me, I looked at something which

11:33.560 --> 11:37.674
seemed to be built by someone who has experience

11:37.772 --> 11:41.622
in the domain and where you see that there

11:41.636 --> 11:46.518
is a continuous effort on improving the program and

11:46.544 --> 11:55.001
that also does thorough reflections on the subject itself. So, I think that was for me.

11:55.590 --> 12:00.922
Of course, there are other solutions available, but still,

12:00.996 --> 12:02.566
I think you have to do your own market

12:02.628 --> 12:04.894
research to see if it fits your needs.

12:05.052 --> 12:08.050
And for me, this was a great and easy

12:08.160 --> 12:11.362
solution for a reasonable price to sell, because I

12:11.376 --> 12:13.978
think that is an easy you don't need to

12:14.004 --> 12:18.454
buy immediately for whatever, six months or so. Yeah.

12:18.552 --> 12:21.226
You can decide one month, and if later

12:21.288 --> 12:23.026
you say no, it's enough, it's enough.

12:23.088 --> 12:26.398
If you want more, you can step in for another month.

12:26.484 --> 12:29.160
It can be immediately or much later.

12:30.030 --> 12:33.862
That's what we tried to do to leave choice. Yeah.

12:33.876 --> 12:36.154
And it's not like this membership where

12:36.192 --> 12:38.470
you didn't see the small numbers.

12:38.580 --> 12:42.610
It's not easy to so you can stop it.

12:42.660 --> 12:44.398
You can also pick it up again if you

12:44.424 --> 12:46.774
feel that you want to pick it up again.

12:46.932 --> 12:49.282
So at least you are, because the people that

12:49.296 --> 12:50.938
are using it, I would say, are in quite

12:50.964 --> 12:52.767
a fragile situation and you don't have the feeling

12:52.840 --> 12:54.931
that somebody is taking advantage of you.

12:55.224 --> 12:57.870
So you can stop it if you want to stop it.

12:57.919 --> 13:03.971
You can start if you want it. It is an open game. Exactly. That's good.

13:08.410 --> 13:10.490
Now you were telling me about that

13:10.540 --> 13:12.760
daily structure was helpful to you.

13:14.530 --> 13:15.170
What else?

13:15.220 --> 13:20.298
Or the information in the beginning, what more was helpful

13:20.334 --> 13:23.320
in the program and how did it help you?

13:24.010 --> 13:25.730
How did it impact you?

13:25.900 --> 13:28.598
What I really liked and which was not

13:28.624 --> 13:33.302
even, I think, marketed as much when I

13:33.316 --> 13:36.626
decided to use it was the body system. Yeah.

13:36.688 --> 13:39.818
The feedback. The feedback from bodies from you

13:39.844 --> 13:42.002
select who are the people around you that

13:42.016 --> 13:44.606
are going to support you through your process.

13:44.788 --> 13:48.460
And it actually helped them to know how to support me.

13:48.910 --> 13:51.086
So the fact that we teach in small

13:51.148 --> 13:56.162
videos, the family members, YouTube, your friends who

13:56.176 --> 13:58.694
are your buddies, that they got some more

13:58.792 --> 14:01.514
instruction on how to be helpful to you. Yeah.

14:01.672 --> 14:03.350
And you see, I actually didn't know that

14:03.400 --> 14:07.730
you received videos, but it did help.

14:08.755 --> 14:09.160
It was interesting.

14:09.160 --> 14:11.160
I didn't know.

14:13.430 --> 14:15.702
But I could see a change in the

14:15.716 --> 14:17.742
way that they were interacting with me. With you.

14:17.816 --> 14:22.074
Yeah, that's interesting because we try in the program because

14:22.112 --> 14:25.338
we want to see how can we help people and

14:25.424 --> 14:29.034
use their natural system and natural resources and family and

14:29.072 --> 14:32.542
friends are natural resource, and that's the goal.

14:32.566 --> 14:34.510
But it's pleasant to hear that that's

14:34.570 --> 14:36.330
really the way you experience it also.

14:36.380 --> 14:39.318
Yeah, because it also, I think, clarified a lot

14:39.344 --> 14:42.006
to them of what is going on with you,

14:42.128 --> 14:44.900
which is not something that you can always explain.

14:45.710 --> 14:47.118
It's not they are going with you

14:47.144 --> 14:48.666
to a doctor's appointment or whatever.

14:48.728 --> 14:52.566
So in that sense, I truly felt a change

14:52.628 --> 14:56.480
in their interactions with their way of supporting you.

14:56.930 --> 14:57.980
That's interesting. That's very nice.

15:04.710 --> 15:06.898
I remember that he once mentioned to

15:06.924 --> 15:10.174
me the self reflection aspects, that it

15:10.212 --> 15:13.474
helped you look different at yourself.

15:13.632 --> 15:17.398
Could you tell something about how that works for you?

15:17.484 --> 15:20.674
Yeah, I think in the self reflection, I probably

15:20.712 --> 15:23.830
didn't mention it now again, because it has become so

15:23.880 --> 15:25.618
natural for me to do this now.

15:25.704 --> 15:29.290
So I think the most important part of

15:29.340 --> 15:32.806
my 15 minutes is that it's about learning

15:32.868 --> 15:35.734
new behaviors that you then incorporate in your

15:35.772 --> 15:38.220
DNA and that you then continue to use.

15:38.550 --> 15:40.858
So the idea is not that you're going

15:40.884 --> 15:43.402
to use this and then forget about it.

15:43.476 --> 15:45.814
The idea is that you're going to change the way that

15:45.852 --> 15:48.900
you are. So self reflection can be a lot of things.

15:49.650 --> 15:52.370
One of the things that I think that I realized

15:52.430 --> 15:56.038
for myself that learning to say no in every type

15:56.064 --> 15:59.640
of circumstance is not an easy thing to do.

16:01.230 --> 16:04.606
So through the program, you learned to put

16:04.728 --> 16:07.078
more boundaries and say no to people.

16:07.224 --> 16:09.898
It's already discovering that this is I think the

16:09.924 --> 16:14.086
first step in the program is always observing certain

16:14.208 --> 16:16.414
behavior, which was interesting for me as well, because

16:16.452 --> 16:19.198
we have the idea that immediately we need to

16:19.224 --> 16:22.200
change something, which is quite difficult actually.

16:22.770 --> 16:24.298
But if you already start by

16:24.324 --> 16:26.650
observing behavior that you have.

16:26.760 --> 16:28.262
Yeah, it goes slower.

16:28.346 --> 16:30.254
It goes slower, and it's much more mindful,

16:30.302 --> 16:33.420
and you're a little bit milder on yourself.

16:34.050 --> 16:37.320
So certain behaviors, and then you

16:37.950 --> 16:39.658
decide for yourself that you actually have

16:39.684 --> 16:42.626
choices of shooting for another behavior.

16:42.818 --> 16:45.710
And I think in the first step realizing

16:45.770 --> 16:48.718
that, okay, I have difficulties to say no.

16:48.864 --> 16:52.114
Then you observe that for some time, and

16:52.152 --> 16:54.298
then you can realize, okay, what's another type

16:54.324 --> 16:56.026
of behavior that I can have?

16:56.208 --> 16:57.238
That's interesting.

16:57.384 --> 16:58.814
You always make me smile.

16:58.862 --> 17:00.946
Because when you are telling this about saying

17:01.008 --> 17:04.750
no, I was thinking did we include this

17:04.800 --> 17:06.262
as a topic in the program?

17:06.336 --> 17:08.589
And I don't even remember.

17:08.760 --> 17:11.770
So I would assume that this was

17:11.819 --> 17:14.685
some self discovery that you did by

17:14.748 --> 17:17.160
answering the questions and observing yourself.

17:17.670 --> 17:21.321
Because it's not something that we certainly

17:21.396 --> 17:22.773
not in the version that you were

17:22.811 --> 17:25.417
attending, because since then it has evolved.

17:25.574 --> 17:27.358
But in the version that you are attending, we

17:27.384 --> 17:30.480
never said that saying no is an important thing.

17:31.170 --> 17:34.294
So it seems that it's something that you are subconsciously...

17:34.392 --> 17:36.862
There are a couple of questions every day.

17:36.936 --> 17:39.898
I don't remember them by heart, which trigger yourself

17:39.984 --> 17:44.410
reflection and then you can listen for yourself, certain

17:44.520 --> 17:47.794
behaviors or things that are getting into your way.

17:47.892 --> 17:51.840
And I think this is an example of something that really...

17:52.650 --> 17:54.598
Because do you remember how long is it to go?

17:54.624 --> 17:58.560
Is it more than a year or more years?

18:00.750 --> 18:03.658
It's actually almost certainly two

18:03.684 --> 18:05.638
and a half years ago.

18:05.664 --> 18:08.278
That the program. It's interesting.

18:08.364 --> 18:10.858
I forgot that it was already so long

18:10.884 --> 18:15.250
ago because then you have a better overview

18:16.770 --> 18:18.914
what it makes on the long term.

18:18.962 --> 18:21.780
Because sometimes people say, yeah, I'm going to do.

18:22.170 --> 18:24.790
Sometimes people by mistakes, write me an email

18:24.840 --> 18:29.258
and say your course or your Elearning.

18:29.354 --> 18:32.950
But I did never design it as an Elearning

18:33.270 --> 18:36.490
because you are familiar in companies with Elearning.

18:36.870 --> 18:38.002
What's the difference between

18:38.076 --> 18:39.374
this program and Elearning?

18:39.422 --> 18:41.114
Because some people think because there's

18:41.162 --> 18:43.474
also some videos in the program.

18:43.572 --> 18:46.414
So some people think it's something like

18:46.452 --> 18:48.838
Elearning, but it's different, I guess. Yeah.

18:48.864 --> 18:54.238
Because Elearning is really a training you would train

18:54.324 --> 18:57.478
someone on, I don't know, stress management only.

18:57.624 --> 19:00.802
I'm not saying that there's no aspects in there which I

19:00.816 --> 19:06.274
would rather consider as mentoring, someone who has a lot of

19:06.312 --> 19:10.678
more experience in it, who is sharing techniques on how you

19:10.704 --> 19:17.414
can better manage your stress, how it would be easier for

19:17.452 --> 19:22.000
you to get your mind to slow down.

19:23.290 --> 19:25.900
There's a couple of techniques that I can think of.

19:28.550 --> 19:30.078
What is the big difference is that I

19:30.104 --> 19:32.914
would rather call it some kind of coaching

19:32.962 --> 19:35.610
mode because it's self coaching mode.

19:37.670 --> 19:40.666
It's you in person behind the camera.

19:40.738 --> 19:43.940
It becomes quite personal in that way.

19:44.390 --> 19:50.290
And through the questions, you trigger people to reflect

19:50.350 --> 19:54.962
and bring them to their not you're the expert.

19:54.986 --> 19:57.394
But I think there's solution part of their

19:57.432 --> 20:01.982
brain that activates the solution focused thinking areas

20:02.006 --> 20:06.094
in the brain.Because otherwise I mean people that are

20:06.132 --> 20:08.474
in this phase are in their reptile brain

20:08.522 --> 20:10.490
and they don't find solutions anymore.

20:10.610 --> 20:13.980
So that's why it's stronger, I think.

20:15.090 --> 20:19.150
I would certainly not consider it as an Elearning.

20:21.090 --> 20:23.834
I wanted to hear what was your opinion?

20:23.882 --> 20:27.094
Because sometimes people are confused. Because of course most

20:27.132 --> 20:30.300
of the things on the market are Elearning. Yeah.

20:30.630 --> 20:33.506
And it's quite difficult to explain to people what's

20:33.518 --> 20:39.182
the difference because you learn some techniques, but it's

20:39.206 --> 20:41.194
not sure that you will integrate them in your

20:41.232 --> 20:44.158
daily life and in all the different contexts that

20:44.184 --> 20:47.030
you are going to work and professional.

20:47.150 --> 20:52.114
And I seem to have impression that you could

20:52.152 --> 20:54.814
integrate quite a lot of those things as well

20:54.852 --> 20:58.020
in your private life as in your business life.

20:59.250 --> 21:01.810
Because I remember that you once told me because

21:01.860 --> 21:05.146
we did this interview in Dutch language before.

21:05.328 --> 21:09.274
And I remember that in the Dutch interview you told

21:09.312 --> 21:12.838
me something that there were things that your daughter or

21:12.864 --> 21:17.014
one of your children were taking over, all those things

21:17.052 --> 21:19.834
that you indirectly were learning in the program.

21:19.992 --> 21:22.426
And then at a certain moment, I don't know,

21:22.548 --> 21:25.310
there was an incident that on the table.

21:25.370 --> 21:28.814
Your daughter at certain moment said, let's

21:28.922 --> 21:31.774
do this or that. Several things that

21:31.872 --> 21:33.542
we learned or that we adapted.

21:33.626 --> 21:35.698
I think one of the things that we did

21:35.724 --> 21:40.150
is sometimes we ask each other to ask nice

21:40.200 --> 21:43.234
stories about the day of people determining their day.

21:43.272 --> 21:46.800
So it brings it back to the positive part.

21:47.130 --> 21:50.686
So otherwise you always focus on the problems.

21:50.808 --> 21:53.110
That's something you still keep as a ritual.

21:53.550 --> 21:55.546
I'm not saying that we're doing that every day,

21:55.608 --> 21:58.620
but at regular points in time, we ask them

21:59.370 --> 22:03.370
and the children, it's funny because they even start

22:03.420 --> 22:07.654
a conversation themselves, and they will also notice when

22:07.692 --> 22:09.862
somebody is not replying to the question.

22:09.936 --> 22:13.354
So being very mindful towards children, if

22:13.392 --> 22:15.338
my husband is, for example, not answering,

22:15.374 --> 22:17.170
they will ask very nice questions.

22:17.220 --> 22:18.322
And how is your data?

22:18.396 --> 22:23.714
You haven't said anything, so it's quite helpful.

22:23.762 --> 22:25.414
So you can translate actually.

22:25.572 --> 22:27.874
And I think that is the challenge for each one of us.

22:27.912 --> 22:30.346
You follow the program and it's not like

22:30.468 --> 22:33.142
sets of rules that you need to follow.

22:33.276 --> 22:34.882
You can then see how it works for

22:34.896 --> 22:37.980
you and then adapt it to your situation.

22:38.490 --> 22:41.866
So these things that your children, for instance,

22:41.928 --> 22:46.214
were learning indirectly, was there some conscious effort

22:46.262 --> 22:47.974
that you said, oh, I want to share,

22:48.072 --> 22:49.634
or did that happen spontaneously?

22:49.682 --> 22:50.854
How does that work?

22:50.892 --> 22:53.590
I think to me it happened at the start very

22:53.640 --> 22:57.838
spontaneously because to be honest, my day didn't consist of

22:57.864 --> 22:59.974
a lot than the things that I was learning there.

23:00.012 --> 23:02.674
So you want to share of what is

23:02.712 --> 23:04.066
going on and what you are learning.

23:04.128 --> 23:06.646
And it brings you back in a

23:06.648 --> 23:08.938
nice way because before you're ill, your

23:08.964 --> 23:11.362
children don't understand what is going on.

23:11.496 --> 23:13.318
And I think then they saw a shift as

23:13.344 --> 23:17.158
well with me learning new things, bringing it to

23:17.184 --> 23:20.770
them and creating an interest on their side.

23:20.940 --> 23:25.334
And then I think later then you reflect

23:25.382 --> 23:27.202
back on what I learned from it.

23:27.216 --> 23:31.190
And you also realize, well, if you want to prevent

23:31.250 --> 23:34.822
your kids go through this, which you certainly want to

23:34.836 --> 23:37.860
do, then there's certain things you want to teach them.

23:38.730 --> 23:41.554
And then it's about how to go about

23:41.592 --> 23:43.942
it and how to explain the concepts and

23:44.076 --> 23:46.498
in a way that children also understand and

23:46.524 --> 23:49.582
they understand much more than we usually think. Yeah.

23:49.656 --> 23:50.580
That's amazing.

23:51.570 --> 23:53.050
In the beginning because the program

23:53.100 --> 23:54.286
is not designed for children.

23:54.348 --> 23:58.486
And one day there was a father of a 13 year old.

23:58.608 --> 24:02.182
They asked me, can my son follow your program?

24:02.256 --> 24:05.734
And I said, I'm sorry, I really don't know.

24:05.892 --> 24:10.618
But if he wants to try and he needs more

24:10.644 --> 24:13.570
help, I will step in and maybe you can help.

24:13.620 --> 24:17.926
And actually, afterwards I heard that this was probably

24:17.988 --> 24:21.514
pretty much your 13 year old kid, but it

24:21.552 --> 24:25.630
seemed to have been working, and I even had

24:25.740 --> 24:29.218
recently I met someone where mother and daughter were

24:29.244 --> 24:34.438
both two children, although it's more made in a

24:34.464 --> 24:39.178
language for adults, but indirectly, it seems that it

24:39.204 --> 24:41.820
affects sometimes other members in the family.

24:43.350 --> 24:43.786
Okay.

24:43.848 --> 24:47.062
So there was the daily aspect of

24:47.076 --> 24:53.078
self reflection, and then after that, you

24:53.104 --> 24:56.006
jumped into your normal business life.

24:56.068 --> 25:01.178
And so now that you look back two years and

25:01.204 --> 25:04.898
a half later, other things that you want to add

25:04.984 --> 25:08.678
or to make the picture more complete, or do you

25:08.704 --> 25:11.320
think that you have mentioned the most important things?

25:14.030 --> 25:17.478
I think what I did realize, coming back to

25:17.504 --> 25:21.906
work and then coming into contact with other people

25:21.968 --> 25:25.914
that went through burnout or depression or had very

25:25.952 --> 25:30.022
high stress symptoms, that there is a wide variety

25:30.166 --> 25:35.394
in how people are helped and what information they

25:35.432 --> 25:38.180
have and what they know about it. Yeah.

25:38.750 --> 25:41.010
And it does seem to have a big

25:41.060 --> 25:45.234
impact on the success rate of view of

25:45.392 --> 25:50.326
feeling good and being very effective, efficient.

25:50.518 --> 25:52.606
What do you mean with wide variety?

25:52.678 --> 25:54.774
I'm not sure if I understand that.

25:54.812 --> 26:00.578
Well, there are big differences.

26:00.734 --> 26:04.978
So you have people who recover well because in

26:05.004 --> 26:09.838
your company you can compare with one of the

26:09.864 --> 26:14.474
highest burnout ratios in our company, in our industry.

26:14.642 --> 26:16.102
So there's quite a lot of

26:16.116 --> 26:18.540
people that I can connect with.

26:20.190 --> 26:24.430
And then you see differences in you have people

26:24.480 --> 26:27.480
that are absent for a very long time. Yes.

26:28.170 --> 26:31.670
Sometimes two, three years that people are absent.

26:31.790 --> 26:34.102
That makes me feel sad because most

26:34.236 --> 26:36.410
of those cases could have been prevented.

26:36.470 --> 26:40.438
And as a medical doctor, that hurts. It hurts a lot.

26:40.464 --> 26:43.738
And also it hurts me to see that when they come

26:43.764 --> 26:48.238
back that they are not always fully recovered and they have

26:48.264 --> 26:53.042
such a high risk to fall again, that's interesting because it's

26:53.066 --> 26:56.542
maybe not about the program as much, but I have a

26:56.556 --> 26:59.640
vision, but I would like to hear your vision on it.

27:00.570 --> 27:03.982
If you now after this experience, you see a

27:03.996 --> 27:07.558
person that you say this person has recovered well

27:07.644 --> 27:11.026
and has finished the process in the right way,

27:11.208 --> 27:14.950
and this person is going to have a relapse.

27:15.450 --> 27:18.334
Do you have an idea what makes you

27:18.372 --> 27:22.018
predict the difference, how you can see the

27:22.044 --> 27:25.366
difference between both groups of people?

27:25.428 --> 27:27.240
Because I see that a lot.

27:29.590 --> 27:33.458
I'm not trained as you are, but you do see

27:33.484 --> 27:35.546
a lot, even in just meeting the people and talking

27:35.608 --> 27:38.714
with them in the way they interact with others and

27:38.752 --> 27:41.078
the way that they put a lot of limitations on

27:41.104 --> 27:44.906
themselves, the ones who are going to relapse for me.

27:45.028 --> 27:52.218
So it's like they are overprotective always putting strong boundaries

27:52.254 --> 27:55.526
on what is possible and what's not possible, talking a

27:55.528 --> 27:59.702
lot about their burnout, saying that they need to do

27:59.716 --> 28:01.818
a lot to prevent a new burnout.

28:01.914 --> 28:06.580
So they're already talking it's happening

28:07.210 --> 28:09.446
or they want to convince others. Yeah.

28:09.508 --> 28:12.698
Or want to convince others and they need to be put

28:12.724 --> 28:16.578
in very protected jobs with not a lot of stress.

28:16.614 --> 28:18.938
And to be honest, that's what I always say,

28:18.964 --> 28:22.374
like, okay, where are those jobs without stress?

28:22.422 --> 28:24.810
And how do you define stress?

28:24.990 --> 28:28.626
Because I think even a librarian can have stress.

28:28.758 --> 28:31.778
So where are you going to end up if

28:31.804 --> 28:34.420
you're going to put these limitations onto yourself?

28:34.810 --> 28:36.590
So for me, there is still a lot of

28:36.640 --> 28:39.062
work for these people to do to work on.

28:39.256 --> 28:40.818
How do I see stress?

28:40.974 --> 28:42.530
How do I work with stress?

28:42.970 --> 28:46.274
And it's unfortunate to see that they didn't get

28:46.312 --> 28:50.522
these lines throughout the period that they were ill.

28:50.596 --> 28:52.358
Now I don't see it from the negative side because

28:52.384 --> 28:56.354
I also know that there are options to solve this.

28:56.452 --> 28:59.282
I really hope that these people find a

28:59.296 --> 29:04.240
way to create support for their specific situation.

29:05.290 --> 29:09.686
But it's unfortunate to see but it reminds me,

29:09.808 --> 29:12.054
a colleague of mine who is also in burnout

29:12.102 --> 29:18.220
and stress management medical doctor also, he calls that

29:19.030 --> 29:21.546
some of those people, that they have the missionary

29:21.618 --> 29:24.638
syndrome, like if they're on a mission and they

29:24.664 --> 29:28.646
want either to convert others to the way they

29:28.828 --> 29:33.110
are cured and then the other ones were overprotective.

29:33.730 --> 29:37.718
And I have the impression that is quite often and

29:37.744 --> 29:40.000
that's what we try to avoid with a program.

29:41.230 --> 29:45.510
Many ways of helping are normative.

29:45.630 --> 29:48.158
And they say how the end result

29:48.244 --> 29:52.094
should be and what someone should reach.

29:52.252 --> 29:57.160
And by putting norms, I have the impression that they

29:57.790 --> 30:01.578
stay within the problem because if you enter a burnout

30:01.674 --> 30:05.162
quite often, it's because you up to perfectionist or you

30:05.176 --> 30:07.060
want to do too much and so on.

30:07.390 --> 30:12.218
And if there's not this spontaneous self reflection that

30:12.244 --> 30:17.102
we try to facilitate partially in the program, then

30:17.296 --> 30:20.174
you are not correcting yourself to where you want

30:20.212 --> 30:23.682
to be deeply, but you are trying to adapt

30:23.706 --> 30:27.342
to a norm, just like in the traditional medical

30:27.426 --> 30:30.558
medicine where the doctor makes a medical prescription.

30:30.714 --> 30:33.374
And if you have a cancer, you have to

30:33.412 --> 30:36.602
hope that your doctor makes that medical prescription because

30:36.736 --> 30:39.066
there is a probably the best solution.

30:39.258 --> 30:42.734
And if you need antibiotics, it's probably best

30:42.772 --> 30:45.546
that the doctor prescribes the right antibiotic.

30:45.678 --> 30:52.394
But in stress related issues, if you don't find the way

30:52.432 --> 30:56.078
you want to be yourself and you cannot align who you

30:56.104 --> 31:00.050
are with who you want to be, then you will probably

31:00.160 --> 31:05.082
repeat the same mistakes and quite often it makes me suffer

31:05.106 --> 31:10.130
that so many people get in the hands of people who

31:10.180 --> 31:14.320
have good intentions in coaching others.

31:16.630 --> 31:19.574
The most risks I see quite often if they have

31:19.612 --> 31:26.258
been coached by ex burnout patients or people who have

31:26.284 --> 31:29.294
had the burnout but did not recover themselves and then

31:29.332 --> 31:33.100
start a coaching practice, I see that quite often.

31:34.570 --> 31:37.958
For instance, if I look at you now here in the

31:37.984 --> 31:45.762
interview, it's like you are grounded in your body and yourself

31:45.956 --> 31:51.680
and those people who did not yet finish the process.

31:52.190 --> 31:54.634
You see there is some tension,

31:54.682 --> 31:57.740
there is some cautiousness in that.

31:59.630 --> 32:00.620
That's interesting.

32:02.210 --> 32:02.960
Okay.

32:04.070 --> 32:06.174
Any other things you wanted to share?

32:06.332 --> 32:08.838
No, I think that's it then I thank you a lot.

32:08.864 --> 32:10.374
I'm very happy that you want to

32:10.412 --> 32:13.386
share your experience with some people who

32:13.448 --> 32:17.214
want to know more about this issues. Thanks a lot. Okay.

32:17.312 --> 32:17.640
You're welcome.

A South-African manager @ The Vlerick Business School:



00:00.000 --> 00:04.200
I think 15Minutes4Me has added a tremendous amount

00:04.210 --> 00:06.874
of value to my life.

00:06.874 --> 00:08.963
On a professional basis,

00:08.900 --> 00:13.100
It's helped me to proactively
prepare myself

00:13.100 --> 00:15.800
mentally, in fact, for each day.

00:17.010 --> 00:19.512
So by spending just a few minutes
every day

00:19.512 --> 00:23.408
to go through the program and to ask the questions and to consider

00:23.408 --> 00:28.320
some of the goals that I could set for myself, I was very well

00:28.330 --> 00:31.320
prepared for the next working day.

00:31.710 --> 00:33.090
I was very well prepared.

00:33.100 --> 00:35.850
In fact, I had outlined the goals that I wanted to achieve

00:35.860 --> 00:39.090
for my day, the priorities that I had set.

00:39.510 --> 00:43.450
And when the next day started, I immediately knew which goals

00:43.460 --> 00:45.760
and which parties I wanted to
work on first.

00:46.110 --> 00:50.087
So that's on the professional side, I think on the personal side,

00:50.087 --> 00:52.630
it's really helped me to think about taking the steps

00:52.630 --> 00:56.620
to really just build in those moments, to take up sport,

00:57.160 --> 01:01.090
to go for a tennis lesson, and to build in some relaxation

01:01.100 --> 01:02.770
moments with friends and family.

01:03.760 --> 01:06.310
It helped me to also plan ahead better with those things

01:06.320 --> 01:09.730
so that I had, in fact, a more optimal balance between professional

01:09.740 --> 01:12.506
and personal life.

01:12.506 --> 01:12.940
Great.

01:15.690 --> 01:17.110
That's quickly.

01:17.120 --> 01:17.920
That's fine.

01:17.920 --> 01:18.340
Okay.

01:18.520 --> 01:20.050
Yeah, I think.

01:20.060 --> 01:21.490
And we'll do the same.

01:21.550 --> 01:22.600
What else I had to know.

01:24.250 --> 01:29.830
It's still recorded, but I let it go and then I will cast

01:29.840 --> 01:30.700
afterwards. Yes.

01:33.869 --> 01:39.610
So Guita, you are attending this coaching program with me, this professional

01:39.610 --> 01:42.127
coaching program over some months, what was the value that it

01:42.127 --> 01:46.005
What was the value that you got from it?

01:46.005 --> 01:48.230
How did it impact you and your professional behavior?

01:48.480 --> 01:53.550
Well, I think through discussions together, my own mental

01:53.560 --> 01:54.990
models were really challenged.

01:55.000 --> 02:00.060
I could reflect better on how I viewed certain aspects and

02:00.070 --> 02:02.070
the professional and personal environments.

02:02.450 --> 02:07.170
And by challenging my own mental models, it gave me a fresh

02:08.070 --> 02:13.140
perspective to take back with me to my work environment and

02:13.150 --> 02:14.670
to my personal home environment.

02:15.960 --> 02:18.450
It gave me a new way, in fact, of looking and questioning

02:18.600 --> 02:21.180
all activities on a day to day basis.

02:22.400 --> 02:25.950
Furthermore, I think if I look professionally, it provides

02:25.960 --> 02:30.660
tremendous insights into the way that internal communication

02:30.670 --> 02:33.660
in your team or an organization can be more structured.

02:35.120 --> 02:38.930
I've also understood the roles better between being a leader,

02:38.930 --> 02:43.340
a mentor, or a coach, and how you can really assume different

02:43.350 --> 02:46.130
roles in different types of meetings and also which situation

02:46.140 --> 02:47.510
calls for which type of role.

02:47.520 --> 02:50.030
So I've learned to greater understand those roles and to

02:50.040 --> 02:52.400
be able to use those in practice.

02:52.970 --> 02:56.520
And how did colleagues perceive this process?

02:56.730 --> 02:58.830
When did they start to notice?

02:58.840 --> 03:00.000
And what did they notice?

03:00.000 --> 03:02.280
And did you get any feedback from them?

03:02.290 --> 03:05.370
Well, I think those are my immediate surroundings really

03:05.400 --> 03:08.130
notice that I was more focused on achieving priorities.

03:08.190 --> 03:09.570
That I set for myself.

03:10.500 --> 03:15.060
I think colleagues appreciated the greater openness in communication

03:16.140 --> 03:16.800
between us.

03:17.430 --> 03:20.593
They appreciated being asked also for their insights,

03:20.593 --> 03:24.630
for their input on the way of structuring the meetings together.

03:27.300 --> 03:31.013
I also learned far more than I would have, had I I not asked them

03:31.013 --> 03:32.610
for their insights and input.

03:33.270 --> 03:38.010
So I really realized and understood the value that additional

03:38.010 --> 03:44.480
questions and additional techniques can have in the work environment.

03:44.480 --> 03:45.830
Okay, thank you.

A more in-depth interview:



00:01.510 --> 00:02.230
Hi, Gita.

00:02.350 --> 00:05.180
Nice to meet you here for a short talk.

00:06.170 --> 00:08.410
You have been studying at Vlerick Business School

00:08.470 --> 00:10.866
and you are working there.

00:11.048 --> 00:15.294
And at a certain point, you started the self

00:15.332 --> 00:18.080
coaching with the '15Minutes4Me.com' program.

00:18.710 --> 00:21.260
And I'd like to hear from you.

00:22.790 --> 00:24.774
What did you do in your life

00:24.932 --> 00:27.140
as well, professionally as for yourself?

00:29.330 --> 00:31.446
Because it's a strange experience.

00:31.568 --> 00:36.330
You talk to a machine, it's like something automatic.

00:36.830 --> 00:41.178
And a lot of time people say

00:41.324 --> 00:43.606
that should be something very impersonal.

00:43.798 --> 00:46.506
But the goal is to connect you with yourself.

00:46.628 --> 00:48.500
And I would like to hear

00:49.190 --> 00:53.034
how this experience was for you. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah.

00:53.072 --> 00:53.602
Good morning, Paul.

00:53.626 --> 00:55.040
It's great to be here again.

00:55.850 --> 00:58.580
I think if I look back at the entire experience,

00:59.270 --> 01:01.842
probably at first I was quite surprised that a lot

01:01.856 --> 01:06.498
of the interaction would be via an online tool, which

01:06.524 --> 01:09.090
in fact, immediately triggered my interest because I had never

01:09.140 --> 01:12.500
worked with such an online self coaching program before.

01:13.910 --> 01:15.942
I think the personal moments

01:15.956 --> 01:17.590
are built in on a monthly basis.

01:17.710 --> 01:21.646
I found it a really great combination because the tool enabled

01:21.658 --> 01:25.422
me just to spend 15 minutes every day reflecting on what

01:25.436 --> 01:28.302
I'd done during the day, but not only reflecting on what

01:28.316 --> 01:33.378
had happened, also taking the time to look ahead and to

01:33.464 --> 01:36.380
prepare myself mentally for the next day.

01:37.190 --> 01:40.398
So do you mean that the process what happened for

01:40.424 --> 01:43.014
you is that it helped you reflect better on the

01:43.052 --> 01:47.958
past, the recent past, and connect better with what you

01:47.984 --> 01:49.926
want to focus on in the future?

01:50.048 --> 01:52.040
Yeah, I think it was a combination of both.

01:53.030 --> 01:56.142
In fact, probably it was more future focused, I think, which

01:56.156 --> 01:58.998
was also great because it was a little bit learning from

01:59.024 --> 02:01.542
the past, but really focused on, in fact, learning from the

02:01.556 --> 02:05.022
past, looking at what is really good in day to day

02:05.036 --> 02:09.018
activities on a professional or a personal basis, keeping those in

02:09.044 --> 02:12.378
mind, and then seeing, in fact, where the difference lies in

02:12.404 --> 02:16.506
reaching and doing what you still need to do to reach

02:16.568 --> 02:19.062
and to achieve the goals. Okay.

02:19.196 --> 02:23.974
And how did impact the practical, daily

02:24.022 --> 02:27.620
way you are working or dealing with people?

02:28.430 --> 02:31.820
So you say I was more aware of my focus,

02:32.210 --> 02:36.294
so I'm curious to find out what that did to

02:36.332 --> 02:40.098
you and how that led to you interact with the

02:40.124 --> 02:42.658
world, with your business, with your colleagues.

02:42.814 --> 02:46.650
Yeah, I think it sharpened by taking a few minutes

02:46.760 --> 02:49.486
each day to think about the next day's priorities.

02:49.618 --> 02:53.778
Experimentally, it sharpened my focus for the next day.

02:53.804 --> 02:57.426
So immediately I knew what was at the top of my list.

02:57.488 --> 02:58.890
I woke up each morning with a clear

02:58.940 --> 03:01.770
goal, in fact, in mind for the day.

03:01.940 --> 03:03.210
That was something that I had not

03:03.260 --> 03:05.958
done on a regular basis before.

03:06.044 --> 03:07.806
So perhaps at moments, but not

03:07.868 --> 03:10.746
in a structured, natural way.

03:10.928 --> 03:13.558
And so doing, in fact, by being better prepared,

03:13.594 --> 03:15.102
it helped me to interact with my colleagues in

03:15.116 --> 03:16.818
a far more relaxed way because I knew that

03:16.844 --> 03:19.498
I was in control of the day's agenda.

03:19.654 --> 03:21.390
I knew what I wanted to achieve.

03:22.190 --> 03:24.402
I was more clear in front of myself as

03:24.416 --> 03:27.450
well about certain goals of meetings were planned.

03:29.190 --> 03:33.034
So it's like because your brain was more focused on what

03:33.072 --> 03:38.374
you wanted, on your priority and your outcome, you are more

03:38.412 --> 03:43.786
present with people and better able to be connected with yourself

03:43.908 --> 03:45.466
and with the goals at the same time.

03:45.528 --> 03:47.590
Something like that.Yeah,indeed. Okay.

03:47.700 --> 03:48.660
That's interesting.

03:50.010 --> 03:53.134
Did you notice either from people in your

03:53.172 --> 03:58.678
private life or in your business environment, did

03:58.704 --> 04:03.660
they observe some minor change or something?

04:04.530 --> 04:07.258
Well, the feedback that I received, in fact, from

04:07.284 --> 04:09.538
those closest to me and also those who I

04:09.564 --> 04:12.814
work with was that, one, I was far more

04:12.852 --> 04:17.206
focused on achieving what I set out for myself.

04:17.387 --> 04:19.390
And two, that I was very open

04:19.440 --> 04:21.180
to share what I was learning.

04:21.570 --> 04:23.494
And there was a lot of appreciation, in fact,

04:23.532 --> 04:27.242
there that I was sharing some of the experiences.

04:27.386 --> 04:28.980
That's interesting. Yeah.

04:29.310 --> 04:32.580
So let's now move to your other experience

04:35.190 --> 04:38.400
as a professional in a business school.

04:39.450 --> 04:41.926
You asked me at a certain moment to come

04:41.988 --> 04:48.482
for a business coaching, professional development coaching, and I've

04:48.506 --> 04:51.058
done the same school as you did. That's where we met.

04:51.084 --> 04:55.678
Also the first time at certain moment, you asked me if you

04:55.704 --> 04:58.150
would work with me as a coach, how would that work?

04:58.200 --> 04:59.314
What would you do?

04:59.472 --> 05:01.810
And some months later, you called

05:01.860 --> 05:04.462
me to start the project.

05:04.656 --> 05:07.834
And I'm curious to find out the

05:07.872 --> 05:10.442
learning process of interaction.

05:10.526 --> 05:14.530
So it was combined with the '
'15Minutes4Me.com' program.

05:14.700 --> 05:20.338
But there were these monthly sessions where you came with

05:20.364 --> 05:23.398
some questions about where you wanted to go and how

05:23.424 --> 05:26.170
to go and how to reach your professional goals.

05:27.030 --> 05:29.246
For 2 hours, we were interacting

05:29.378 --> 05:31.714
and I was listening to you.

05:31.752 --> 05:35.314
I tried to understand and to help you

05:35.412 --> 05:38.220
guide through different steps in the process.

05:38.610 --> 05:43.738
And I'm curious what came out for you

05:43.884 --> 05:48.720
and how did that happen for you? Yeah. Okay.

05:49.350 --> 05:53.086
Well, I think what came out in general of

05:53.268 --> 05:58.282
the process is a built in reflex just to

05:58.296 --> 06:00.970
prepare myself on a day to day basis.

06:01.710 --> 06:05.506
I think what I've also learned is that you can

06:05.568 --> 06:10.680
challenge yourself far more than you remember each day.

06:11.070 --> 06:13.858
So I think through discussions, it was very interesting to

06:13.884 --> 06:19.082
learn about the amount of knowledge, what I said tools

06:19.106 --> 06:22.154
and principles that can be applied, be it in meetings

06:22.202 --> 06:25.200
with colleagues, be it in your personal life.

06:25.650 --> 06:27.994
And I think in the business of our lives, we

06:28.032 --> 06:30.598
forget that there is so much that there are so

06:30.624 --> 06:34.690
many concepts and aspects to consider on a daily basis.

06:35.730 --> 06:38.998
So a few examples, I think on the one

06:39.024 --> 06:44.446
hand, professionally, and this is very evident, of course,

06:44.508 --> 06:46.238
but when one is wrapped up in a role

06:46.274 --> 06:49.634
that is between more of a market facing role.

06:49.682 --> 06:52.382
Sometimes the internal communication feels

06:52.406 --> 06:54.418
a little bit less important. Yeah.

06:54.444 --> 06:57.266
Because in your work you have a marketing

06:57.338 --> 07:02.182
aspect, but also internal communication aspect of it.

07:02.196 --> 07:03.206
Yes, indeed.

07:03.338 --> 07:05.700
So I think what I really learned was that

07:06.870 --> 07:10.546
never ever is to lose sight of the importance that

07:10.728 --> 07:16.046
internal communication role plays and the power and strength

07:16.118 --> 07:22.022
of communicating openly, regularly, consistently using a repetitive agenda

07:22.106 --> 07:24.142
of points to be discussed each time.

07:24.336 --> 07:27.122
I think if your open communication, if your internal communication

07:27.266 --> 07:29.460
is strong, then you can go to the market.

07:30.570 --> 07:31.114
Yeah.

07:31.212 --> 07:35.470
Because that's what often happens with professionals.

07:35.850 --> 07:38.602
They get a focus from their organization.

07:38.796 --> 07:41.182
For instance, if they get a focus,

07:41.316 --> 07:42.874
you have to go to the market.

07:43.032 --> 07:46.418
It's like we have a tendency to focus on our brain,

07:46.454 --> 07:51.046
on the market and we forget where the whole picture is.

07:51.228 --> 07:54.418
And it sounds like what you are telling me is

07:54.444 --> 07:58.762
that in this coaching process you reconnect better the full

07:58.896 --> 08:02.726
picture, the full process of what you had to achieve.

08:02.858 --> 08:03.442
Absolutely.

08:03.576 --> 08:05.686
So that's really some of the basics, but some of

08:05.688 --> 08:08.940
the basics that are forgotten when we're in there.

08:11.430 --> 08:17.734
What's interesting to me, I've always been fascinated that on one

08:17.772 --> 08:22.018
hand, you and I, we went to a business school, and over

08:22.044 --> 08:25.174
the years I had a lot of clients who at the same

08:25.212 --> 08:28.582
time were doing an MBA program at the Vlerick Business School and at

08:28.596 --> 08:30.470
the same time called me for a coaching.

08:30.590 --> 08:33.240
I was always intrigued to find out

08:34.830 --> 08:37.510
what's different, where is it complementary?

08:38.190 --> 08:43.442
Because why would you do two types of developments,

08:43.586 --> 08:46.018
sometimes even in the same moment?

08:46.044 --> 08:48.682
For you it was years ago that you were a

08:48.696 --> 08:51.358
student at the school and you came for

08:51.384 --> 08:54.250
coaching later, but I've seen both processes happen.

08:54.420 --> 08:57.540
So how do you see this?

08:58.290 --> 08:59.842
What's the difference and it's value

08:59.916 --> 09:02.230
of each of those components? Yeah.

09:02.340 --> 09:05.820
Well, I think probably there's no, let's say, chronological order

09:06.690 --> 09:09.322
if one has the coaching inside before you come to

09:09.336 --> 09:13.462
follow a program at Vlerick, you're very well equipped in

09:13.476 --> 09:15.682
the sense that you really know yourself well and you

09:15.696 --> 09:17.674
know your limits and how much you can take on

09:17.712 --> 09:20.710
and what you're capable of achieving.

09:21.450 --> 09:22.402
And at the same time, I

09:22.416 --> 09:25.130
think it's a fantastic combination.

09:25.250 --> 09:28.618
If you come to Vlerick because you're searching for

09:28.644 --> 09:30.578
more knowledge, in fact, to apply to your professional

09:30.614 --> 09:34.378
life, to your team, to your organization. If you

09:34.404 --> 09:37.726
couple that with a very strong understanding of how

09:37.788 --> 09:39.742
you can best interact with people and how you

09:39.756 --> 09:43.862
can best organize your life and find the balance,

09:43.946 --> 09:47.650
then I think you have a strong, willing combination.

09:48.810 --> 09:51.370
Could I summarize it like this, that at least

09:51.420 --> 09:53.398
my experience was that when I was at the

09:53.424 --> 09:57.410
school, I learned the big strategic maps.

09:57.590 --> 10:01.450
I learned where to position the business, what

10:01.500 --> 10:04.606
strategy to follow on a macro level.

10:04.788 --> 10:07.666
And I often had the impression that when people

10:07.728 --> 10:11.830
came here, they were trying to find out. Ok.

10:11.880 --> 10:14.042
Now I know the strategic maps.

10:14.186 --> 10:16.150
I know what would be good for the

10:16.200 --> 10:18.790
company, for my business unit, for my department.

10:19.110 --> 10:23.698
And now I need to learn to take the

10:23.724 --> 10:27.850
leadership to convince the people in my staff, people

10:27.900 --> 10:29.986
who are not in my staff, people that I

10:29.988 --> 10:32.842
have more or less formal influence on.

10:33.036 --> 10:35.950
And to make those things that I

10:36.000 --> 10:39.562
strategically learned in my business education happen

10:39.696 --> 10:41.770
in real daily business life.

10:41.940 --> 10:44.554
Is that more or less how you experience it?

10:44.592 --> 10:45.278
Yeah, indeed.

10:45.374 --> 10:47.710
So, in fact, a lot of our programs also

10:47.760 --> 10:50.698
concentrate on this material, but I would say that

10:50.724 --> 10:53.518
they probably do not go as deep on a

10:53.544 --> 10:56.254
personal basis, and that's where coaching really comes in.

10:56.292 --> 10:56.530
Yeah.

10:56.580 --> 11:00.034
So the real skills if I talk to you,

11:00.192 --> 11:04.078
how do I get this interaction going in the

11:04.104 --> 11:06.874
details of the interaction, and how do I make

11:06.912 --> 11:10.946
leadership with this or that employee specifically?

11:11.018 --> 11:12.060
Yeah, absolutely.

11:12.630 --> 11:14.858
In fact, as you mentioned, with strategic frameworks,

11:14.894 --> 11:17.894
if you want to be successful in implementing

11:17.942 --> 11:20.522
strategy, it's all about having your people aligned

11:20.606 --> 11:22.946
and on board with you as a manager.

11:23.138 --> 11:25.918
And of course, and then it's important to find

11:25.944 --> 11:29.350
out how do I do that with my personality?

11:30.210 --> 11:34.262
Because everyone has different strengths developed

11:34.406 --> 11:37.742
during childhood, during previous experiences.

11:37.886 --> 11:40.802
And often I have like this feeling

11:40.946 --> 11:44.066
that it's like a software upgrade.

11:44.138 --> 11:48.590
It's like when Windows, the first versions,

11:48.650 --> 11:50.590
were not adapted to the Internet, because

11:50.640 --> 11:52.342
there was no Internet in the world.

11:52.476 --> 11:54.482
And then every time there is a new upgrade,

11:54.506 --> 11:56.630
you can say, why do they need an upgrade?

11:56.750 --> 12:00.214
Because the world is changing and because you

12:00.252 --> 12:03.478
need more different interfaces with the world.

12:03.624 --> 12:08.374
And so quite often when people after the

12:08.412 --> 12:10.846
last coaching session were wrapping up, I had

12:10.848 --> 12:13.018
the impression that what they were doing was

12:13.044 --> 12:16.200
like an upgrade to the next level of

12:16.590 --> 12:20.580
leadership or professional development or something like that.

12:21.450 --> 12:24.322
That's more or less our new experiences. Yeah.

12:24.516 --> 12:29.700
And related to the coaching process,

12:31.350 --> 12:34.630
what did you learn from colleagues?

12:35.850 --> 12:38.160
How did they perceive the process?

12:39.510 --> 12:43.970
Well, I think my colleagues were not immediately aware.

12:44.030 --> 12:45.706
There was minimal impact, let's say, because I

12:45.708 --> 12:48.418
was doing it online in a very short

12:48.444 --> 12:50.170
period of time, 15 minutes a day.

12:50.220 --> 12:53.938
That was I could sometimes do that occasionally during

12:53.964 --> 12:56.722
the working day, but most often, in fact, during

12:56.796 --> 12:59.758
my private time where I could sit at my

12:59.784 --> 13:03.120
ease and quiet focus on the questions.

13:03.930 --> 13:07.438
I think that they were surprised by some of the

13:07.464 --> 13:11.210
new emails that I sent asking more for their opinion,

13:11.270 --> 13:13.678
asking more for their feedback on how we might best

13:13.764 --> 13:17.218
better structure meetings together and what was really interesting, by

13:17.304 --> 13:20.350
opening up and by asking for their feedback and input,

13:20.850 --> 13:23.986
I learned to understand them better as well. Okay.

13:24.048 --> 13:25.678
It was a reminder, in fact, of

13:25.764 --> 13:28.514
the importance and the power of continuously

13:28.562 --> 13:30.314
always checking, of course, with your colleagues

13:30.422 --> 13:33.518
which approach works best of imposing

13:33.554 --> 13:36.014
an approach or immediate style.

13:36.182 --> 13:38.998
So what you describe in here is that the

13:39.024 --> 13:42.410
process for your environment starts in a rather invisible

13:42.470 --> 13:47.578
way and I often get demands of companies who

13:47.604 --> 13:50.614
say we want to do a big coaching program

13:50.712 --> 13:53.522
where it's very visible that we are doing coaching.

13:53.666 --> 13:57.874
And my personal tendency is to start low profile because

13:58.032 --> 14:01.342
my experience is that if you announce change there is

14:01.356 --> 14:06.442
a lot of resistance and if you first develop small

14:06.516 --> 14:11.770
microdynamics of changing interactions and people after two or three

14:11.820 --> 14:14.962
months start to be surprised, hey, there is something different

14:15.036 --> 14:18.058
in the way this person is approaching me and I

14:18.084 --> 14:22.210
like it that it gets a better momentum.

14:23.310 --> 14:27.254
So the promise is lower the public promise,

14:27.302 --> 14:29.330
at least because there is no public promise.

14:29.450 --> 14:32.446
It's almost like someone steps almost

14:32.508 --> 14:34.440
invisibly in the coaching project.

14:35.130 --> 14:38.954
The manager knows, the person knows, but you don't communicate

14:39.062 --> 14:41.674
too much that you are doing it and then only

14:41.772 --> 14:45.240
after a while when people start to observe a difference,

14:45.990 --> 14:49.234
then you can start to share your knowledge and teach

14:49.272 --> 14:50.942
them something of what you learned.

14:51.086 --> 14:53.342
Is that what you mean? Absolutely. Yeah, indeed.

14:53.426 --> 14:54.022
That's good.

14:54.096 --> 14:56.074
And in fact, with many colleagues as well within

14:56.112 --> 14:58.260
the broader circle, if there was ever a question

14:59.070 --> 15:02.842
or a concern then immediately, you can indeed share

15:02.976 --> 15:07.430
a different perspective and yeah. That's great solution.

15:07.550 --> 15:10.354
Yeah, thanks a lot for sharing. You're welcome.

15:10.512 --> 15:11.140
It was great.

An artist shares her experience:



00:00.000 --> 00:03.390
I am Hadewig.

00:03.400 --> 00:07.590
And I found 15Minutes4Me on the internet.

00:07.960 --> 00:14.740
I had the diagnosis of burnout and there was not so many

00:14.770 --> 00:20.175
help to find at that moment.

00:20.175 --> 00:24.329
So I started looking myself

00:24.329 --> 00:30.210
for a self-help thing

00:30.210 --> 00:33.365
and I found it on the internet.

00:33.365 --> 00:39.267
So I filled the form in with all the questions

00:39.618 --> 00:44.130
and that made me want to start with

00:44.130 --> 00:46.000
the first part of the program.

00:46.000 --> 00:51.620
And I finished the program because I really

00:51.600 --> 00:58.585
liked to do everyday 15 minutes for myself.

00:58.575 --> 01:02.024
It gave me the feeling of bouncing back,

01:03.000 --> 01:06.337
although I felt very tired and

01:06.337 --> 01:08.851
I could not do anything in the first month.

01:09.900 --> 01:15.440
It was the first light at the end of the tunnel.

01:15.560 --> 01:17.373
You can say that

01:17.373 --> 01:23.872
the name also was interesting for me

01:24.283 --> 01:29.544
because it's something we don't do enough

01:29.544 --> 01:33.390
taking some reflection time for ourselves.

01:33.740 --> 01:38.526
And that was the thing I needed, I think,

01:38.526 --> 01:41.140
on the whole to reflect

01:41.973 --> 01:45.440
after being busy for so many years.

01:47.180 --> 01:52.800
And then the content of the program was also very helpful

01:54.380 --> 01:59.600
because it first went into the direction of

01:59.610 --> 02:02.060
What did you do today to be grateful for?

02:03.250 --> 02:07.160
And I found that it was not so difficult

02:07.150 --> 02:09.600
to find something to be thankful for.

02:09.880 --> 02:14.932
And well, if there is some one thing to find,

02:14.932 --> 02:17.600
there are more things to find, mostly.

02:18.110 --> 02:24.080
So that gave me some confidence for recovering.

02:24.580 --> 02:31.132
And well, I kept doing that and I found that

02:31.132 --> 02:33.253
there are many things that can help me.

02:33.253 --> 02:39.869
And what I found also is that when I don't do it so much,

02:39.869 --> 02:41.841
it is better for me.

02:41.841 --> 02:44.790
I'm the kind of person that does too much.

02:44.780 --> 02:47.550
And this program helped me

02:48.378 --> 02:57.400
making me ignore with some rest.

02:58.000 --> 03:00.800
And now I'm stuck.

Study World Congress of Psychiatry

Stress level decrease during daily Mental Training
Stress level decrease during daily Mental Training (median, n = 9291)
19th World Congress of Psychiatry, Lisbon 2019