Dr. Paul Koeck talks at TEDx

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Hello, whom of you has never had a

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friend who was suffering stress, anxiety, depression, tension.

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Whom of you has never had a moment that

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you are worried that you were forgetting some words

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or worried if your memory is still functioning?

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Because centuries ago this only

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happened when you are 85.

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But recently we discover in our society that even young

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people, I even get emails from school children who are

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asking me, doctor am I suffering a burnout?

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And unfortunately it starts at

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younger and younger ages.

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And what happens is that when stress, whatever kind

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of stress that happens in our lives is stimulating

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our adrenaline, our cortisol and several other stress hormones,

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there's a kind of poisoning of the brain.

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And the first organ that's attacked is

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part of our brain, the hippocampus, where

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the concentration in our memory is situated.

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And because of that we are getting difficulty in being

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focused on that what we want, on whom we want

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to be and what we want to achieve in life.

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And more and more we start

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to experience when stress is happening.

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Negative stress at least that we have the feeling like we

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don't have our brain as an organ anymore in order to

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make the right decisions and to live the happy life.

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It's like some people start to

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feel the hopelessness and the sadness.

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Some people start to feel anxiety and tension, others are

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getting so tired that it's like they say, I'm broken

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down and I don't know what to do anymore, I

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don't know who I am anymore, I'm completely losing myself.

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And this is happening more and more frequently.

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It's happening more and more since the mobile

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phone, since Facebook, since messenger, since a lot

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of influencers are coming to our brain and

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our brain cannot digest it anymore.

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At the speed that we try to live our lives and

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to try to be the person who we want to be.

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Now however, there is hope because what we see

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in our survey, in our results analyzing 3000 patients

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who have followed a program where we are analyzing

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what works and what doesn't work, we have been

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able now to develop protocols where people who are

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in that situation within three weeks of time.

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So the average patient who follows this type

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of protocols in three weeks of time reaches

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normal levels of stress, anxiety and depressivity again.

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So technically it is possible to decrease

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the stress in a pretty short amount

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of time in several weeks of time.

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And if we take an antidepressive medication, it

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also takes about three weeks of time.

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And a good selfhelp system takes on average three weeks

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of time for some people more, for some people less.

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And what we measured is that the level of life

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satisfaction and happiness can increase with 40% in three weeks

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of time has been measured on 3000 people.

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Now what makes that people fail

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in living these happy lives?

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Because we are all born to live the lives that we

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want to live to become the person we want to be.

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We have a kind of innate desire to

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become the person we want to be.

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And it's like our software goes there.

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And when we see that something makes it

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impossible for us to reach this dream and

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this goal, this negative stress starts to happen.

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But what makes that some people can

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cope with it and some others don't.

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Those who cope with it, at least those who fail

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are those who, first of all, don't make a decision

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that it's a priority to manage this in our society

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where stress is so frequent around us.

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So the first reason why people fail

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is they don't make a decision.

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Maybe they go to the physician, maybe to the psychologist,

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but that doesn't even mean they took the decision.

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From today on, I'm going to change

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my life and do something about it.

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The second reason is they don't have a system.

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They don't know how to do it.

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So the second reason why people don't find

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solutions is they don't have a system.

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The third reason is they quite

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often don't have access to knowledge.

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You could say address a lot of you on

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YouTube, but where to start to find what's good

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knowledge and what's not the right knowledge.

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So a lot of people don't succeed because they don't

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have access to the right type of insights and knowledge.

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Fourth reason is that they don't work on it

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with a system on a daily, consistent basis.

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Because whatever you do, if you want to make a

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change in your life, it requires changing habits, because when

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you are in a depression or in a state of

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anxiety or in a burnout, it's because you have developed

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habits that are not adapted to a happy life anymore.

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And your challenge is to develop new habits.

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And that's what's starting to fail at certain moments.

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And when I realized that, I was wondering with

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some colleagues, what can we do about it?

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Because a lot of people don't go to the physician.

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A lot of people don't go

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to the psychiatrist or the psychologist.

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And even if they would go, they might be

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on a waiting list for three weeks, for five weeks

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in some countries, even for seven months before

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they get access to the right kind of help.

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And maybe they even will not have the

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right match with the right type of therapist.

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So when I discovered that and when I discovered that

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a lot of people in my medical practice called me

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and they say, no, I've been sent by this doctor.

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I said, that's strange because

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he's already five years retired.

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Yeah, doctor, but he gave me your telephone number six years

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ago, but I didn't have the courage to call you.

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So I was thinking, what can we do

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to make something more accessible and easier?

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And at that moment, we discovered that with

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the Internet, there's a lot of possibilities.

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And we try to see what can

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we do to offer a daily solution?

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Because if you don't change your habit on a daily

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basis, if you only go once a week to the

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psychotherapist or once every two weeks and you don't do

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something every day to train the new skills and to

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reverse even the biological process in your brain.

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Because what we have seen that is even if

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some brain cells are damaged biologically because of the

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chronic stress, you can reverse most of that by

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training these brain areas in the right way.

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But then you need a consistent system.

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So what's very important is that science is focusing more

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and more not only on having a nice talk, to

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give someone a nice insight, but to help people to

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deliver them a system where step by step they can

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build up the competence to rebuild new habits.

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And that's what we have seen now in our research at

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this moment, we have like 400,000 people who took our free

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test on the internet, on the website 15Minutes4Me.com

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and about 3000 of them follow the full program.

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And when we analyze their results, we see that the average

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client on the 3000 that are in our sample database, average

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client when they really do it every day, when they really

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take 15 minutes a day, and what do they do?

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They do self reflection, asking yourself kind of

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questions, whom do I want to be?

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What type of life do I want to have?

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What type of a mother or father do

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I want to be for my children?

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What type of a professional do I want to be?

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What type of a friend do I want to be?

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So what type of a person do I want to be

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and what am I already doing that works in that direction?

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And that's what a good

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psychotherapist or software can do.

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Ask you the right questions so that you start

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to get insight in what's useful for me.

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And the funny thing is when I analyzed the first

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clients who did our program, they were giving us solutions.

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I was taking my antidepressive medication and so on.

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So I was a little bit scared because I

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didn't want to encourage medication too much, although it

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can be useful from time to time.

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But then after week I saw that the responses

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were shifting to I did some meditation and that's

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already better, but it's still something that you have

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to do in a systematic way.

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And then after some weeks, the type of answer that came

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where I went to the swimming pool with my three year

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old daughter, I went for a walk, I listened to some

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music, I called a friend on the telephone.

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And then we see that what people

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need is to reconnect with the original

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solutions and resources of normal, happy life.

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And when they can reconnect again, and that's what the

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brain makes impossible when you are in this negative vicious

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circle, it becomes almost impossible to reconnect the brain to

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that what you already know from before.

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And when you ask people with a systematic approach,

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the right questions on a daily basis, at that

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moment people will start to find solutions.

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So if you're interested to find out, go to the website

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15Minutes4Me.com and do the test and have a look.

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Thanks a lot.

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Hi, Kathleen.

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Happy to see you here.

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And I'm very grateful that you want

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to share some of your experiences.

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You are a happy mother, a proud mother

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of three children, a happy family, and

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you have a career in international company.

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And as most people in Western society are doing, we are

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rushing because we want to be the best mother and to

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be a good employee and to be a good colleague and

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to be a good manager and to be good in everything.

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And at a certain moment, what I see as a

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medical doctor quite often and what we see with the

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'15Minutes4Me.com' program, a lot of people, they

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hit the borders of what our body can take.

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And for some people, they go and burn out.

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Others get anxiety, others will get

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depressions or other psychosomatic problems.

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In your case, it was mainly burn out.

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So that almost from one day to another, your body

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said, okay, I don't collaborate in the game anymore.

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And I'd like to have your experience.

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What I want to learn from you and also to be able

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to share with people who view is what was helpful to you.

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So what did you learn from that experience?

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And in the second stage, what did

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the program contribute to this help?

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So what in general was helpful to you and how did

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you find a program and how did that contribute to what

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you wanted to change and what you wanted to reach in your life?

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So I think if I understand correctly, Paul, your

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first question is around what did I learn from

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the overall experience, from the burn out itself I guess? Yeah.

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And especially from the experience and what helps because

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of course, it's more useful that people learn about

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what helps than the diagnostic or the medical part.

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Yeah.

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So I think certainly that what I think, which

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is very important, is that you try to prevent

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it, because if you are for the people that

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are going through it, they probably already know.

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For the people that are for the moment,

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experiencing very high stress symptoms, it's not a

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great moment to hit the wall.

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So as you mentioned, you don't see it coming.

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If you hit the wall, it's too late.

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Now, the good news is that you can get out of it.

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I'm kind of a proof of that for myself.

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You can get out of it if you follow the right step.

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I hear all the stories of people who don't do that.

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And I can also share that because I come across

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also people that have had a burnout, and then you

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still see that there's still some remaining issues that they

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are tackling, and then you still wonder, didn't you get

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the right help or what have you missed or what

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was different for me, that I don't seem to have

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these remaining anxiety problems or remaining stress symptoms.

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That's interesting.

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We certainly want to go deeper on that one also here.

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So for me, what I noticed is, okay, you go

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into a burnout and then you're confronted with yourself.

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So I had a lot of medical support, and one

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of the big questions that was asking me is what

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are you going to change in your life?

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That's the question that doctors are the

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people who try to help you. Yeah.

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That's quite tough because at that moment

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in time you're not feeling so great.

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Let's say that you're not in a solution state of mind.

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You don't find that quickly solution.

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So on your own, that's not so easy to go

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through that. Do you mean, like it's probably the most

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important question, but at that time it's almost like too

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early to answer it or too difficult?

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I think it's too difficult

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because you're not feeling okay.

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You don't know exactly what caused it.

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So you first need some relief before you can what

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I hear you say, it's like as if it's a

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process in different stages where in one stage you need

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to relieve the body and in a later stage you

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will need to address that deeper questions.

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Yeah, certainly.

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So there's certainly a resting part in there.

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What really helped me with the online program is

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it starts up quite slowly in the sense that

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it explains you at the start a lot of

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concepts about how your mind works.

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And those were things that

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I actually didn't know before.

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So you mean that what was helpful for you?

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Is this what we call in our technical words

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of psycho education, where we teach in simple, non

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medical words how the brain works and what happens

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when you get into either burnout or depression or

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anxiety so that you have an understanding almost like

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biologically what's happening. Because I think something is going

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wrong with your heart or with another organ.

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You get quite a lot of

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great explanations from your doctors.

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I didn't get a feeling when I had a

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burnout that these type of explanations were given.

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And actually you can consider it's an organ as well.

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And it works in a certain way.

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And the more you understand it, the more

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as well you can work with it. Yeah.

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So the understanding of the biological, let's say the simplified

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explanation of the biological parts of the brain, that was

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very useful to you. It is very useful. Certainly. And then the fact that it

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is daily, I think that is very crucial. Yeah.

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Has that been important to you, the fact

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that you have a kind of daily structure

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or support or something at home?

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I was in the case, I was at home.

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I can imagine when people are not at home

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yet, but still you are struggling to survive, to

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survive your stress into that moment in time.

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It's great to know that you have a 15 minutes

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daily help for yourself or moments of reflection and that

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you don't need to wait for what is it a

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typical one month before you see your doctor again?

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Two weeks or three weeks.

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It's in the evening again that you get

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some information or an exercise to do.

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And that is a little step.Because

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that's interesting what you're saying, because your

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experience like this daily report was important.

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And sometimes people who didn't follow the program,

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they asked me this kind of question like, but

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don't you need this human relationship?

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How can a program be useful?

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Some people say this must be very

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anonymous, although I hear some people who

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experience the program say the opposite.

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How did that relate in comparison

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with someone guiding you live?

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But you have to drive there and

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all the consequences because it's daily.

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But it's a program.

07:29.270 --> 07:30.822
I'm not saying that one

07:30.896 --> 07:32.720
can always substitute the others.

07:33.710 --> 07:37.100
I also use the face to face support.

07:37.550 --> 07:41.746
But I do see it certainly has a very big compliment.

07:41.818 --> 07:44.274
And I can also understand for people that are

07:44.312 --> 07:46.638
not in a situation that I was already if

07:46.664 --> 07:48.906
I would have known of this before. Yeah.

07:49.028 --> 07:51.270
More preventive. For more preventive that

07:51.950 --> 07:53.694
it's probably you don't want to

07:53.732 --> 07:57.622
go and see whatever psychologist, coach.

07:57.766 --> 07:59.910
That's what I hear from many people.Because

08:00.080 --> 08:02.746
you don't feel that you're ill, you don't

08:02.818 --> 08:04.494
feel that it's the moment to see them.

08:04.532 --> 08:07.314
Yet there's still taboo around it.

08:07.352 --> 08:11.142
And in that case, I think it is very easy to

08:11.216 --> 08:15.246
start off this program and you probably see even quicker benefits

08:15.368 --> 08:18.930
than in the case when you're already deep in it.

08:19.100 --> 08:22.460
Yeah, that's what I've heard from other people also.

08:23.690 --> 08:25.878
But what you are saying is that

08:25.904 --> 08:28.950
this daily support was very important.

08:29.060 --> 08:30.414
So the fact that there was every

08:30.452 --> 08:33.582
day some type of a guidance. Yeah.

08:33.716 --> 08:39.114
Also because what I also liked is that you start to

08:39.212 --> 08:43.929
kind of test to see how you are different levels.

08:44.110 --> 08:46.650
And it shows it very graphically.

08:47.210 --> 08:49.678
In my case, I think it was very confrontational

08:49.714 --> 08:52.422
to see that I was not doing great.

08:52.496 --> 08:57.882
I already knew that consultant with that as well.

08:58.076 --> 09:02.250
And then actually, you see, because of your

09:02.300 --> 09:05.550
daily follow up, you see an evolution.

09:05.930 --> 09:07.474
And I think that is fantastic.

09:07.522 --> 09:09.690
The fact that you have a kind of feedback from

09:09.740 --> 09:13.506
yourself to yourself through the program. Then you see actually

09:13.568 --> 09:17.730
that it's paying off and it's a quite quick evolution.

09:18.110 --> 09:20.298
I'm not saying you go immediately from red and

09:20.324 --> 09:22.098
to green and so not what is happening.

09:22.184 --> 09:25.098
But you see that through the actions that you

09:25.124 --> 09:30.920
are taking, you see that you are slowly but surely okay.

09:33.150 --> 09:35.242
How does it feel like you have

09:35.256 --> 09:36.814
to motivate yourself to do it?

09:36.852 --> 09:39.982
Was it difficult to of course, you get your

09:39.996 --> 09:43.790
invitation by email, but you still have to decide

09:43.850 --> 09:46.246
to take action to keep following the program.

09:46.308 --> 09:51.022
Was it difficult or was it pretty easy? It's only 15 minutes.

09:51.156 --> 09:51.454
Yeah.

09:51.492 --> 09:56.014
So I think when you're at home and 15 minutes

09:56.052 --> 10:00.082
is certainly not a lot, when you are still working.

10:00.216 --> 10:03.586
And so I've heard of other people that have followed it

10:03.648 --> 10:06.490
then even then the 15 minutes is not a lot.

10:06.600 --> 10:09.050
Do you also get feedbacks of colleagues,

10:09.110 --> 10:12.298
who follow the program and who

10:12.324 --> 10:14.074
are still more in the preventive state?

10:14.112 --> 10:15.934
In the preventive state, yeah. Maybe.

10:16.032 --> 10:19.802
Do you have some reflections on how because it's

10:19.826 --> 10:21.898
interesting to hear how you experienced it, but if

10:21.924 --> 10:25.618
you have feedback from colleagues, how they experienced it

10:25.644 --> 10:29.114
as a kind of more in an earlier preventive

10:29.162 --> 10:31.726
stage? How does it work for them?

10:31.848 --> 10:33.300
I think it's the same.

10:33.750 --> 10:36.910
The first thing that was interesting for them is to

10:36.960 --> 10:42.758
realize that they did have a problem and then that

10:42.784 --> 10:46.994
you can also work on that job because there's so

10:47.032 --> 10:50.680
many different places you can go to.

10:52.150 --> 10:55.278
But there's not a lot people don't

10:55.314 --> 10:57.950
find a lot of trusted places.

11:00.350 --> 11:01.554
There's quite a lot of people

11:01.592 --> 11:02.938
that have followed your programs.

11:02.974 --> 11:06.260
So you do have some evolution over time.

11:06.710 --> 11:10.258
There's some research that has been done so that builds

11:10.294 --> 11:13.314
kind of a trust for people to start using it

11:13.472 --> 11:17.082
because you have to get over that first fear of...

11:17.276 --> 11:19.626
Was that difficult for you when you were looking on

11:19.628 --> 11:24.054
the Internet to decide what to find, which program or which

11:24.092 --> 11:28.940
solution to trust, or was it a difficult search?

11:30.410 --> 11:33.510
I think for me, I looked at something which

11:33.560 --> 11:37.674
seemed to be built by someone who has experience

11:37.772 --> 11:41.622
in the domain and where you see that there

11:41.636 --> 11:46.518
is a continuous effort on improving the program and

11:46.544 --> 11:55.001
that also does thorough reflections on the subject itself. So, I think that was for me.

11:55.590 --> 12:00.922
Of course, there are other solutions available, but still,

12:00.996 --> 12:02.566
I think you have to do your own market

12:02.628 --> 12:04.894
research to see if it fits your needs.

12:05.052 --> 12:08.050
And for me, this was a great and easy

12:08.160 --> 12:11.362
solution for a reasonable price to sell, because I

12:11.376 --> 12:13.978
think that is an easy you don't need to

12:14.004 --> 12:18.454
buy immediately for whatever, six months or so. Yeah.

12:18.552 --> 12:21.226
You can decide one month, and if later

12:21.288 --> 12:23.026
you say no, it's enough, it's enough.

12:23.088 --> 12:26.398
If you want more, you can step in for another month.

12:26.484 --> 12:29.160
It can be immediately or much later.

12:30.030 --> 12:33.862
That's what we tried to do to leave choice. Yeah.

12:33.876 --> 12:36.154
And it's not like this membership where

12:36.192 --> 12:38.470
you didn't see the small numbers.

12:38.580 --> 12:42.610
It's not easy to so you can stop it.

12:42.660 --> 12:44.398
You can also pick it up again if you

12:44.424 --> 12:46.774
feel that you want to pick it up again.

12:46.932 --> 12:49.282
So at least you are, because the people that

12:49.296 --> 12:50.938
are using it, I would say, are in quite

12:50.964 --> 12:52.767
a fragile situation and you don't have the feeling

12:52.840 --> 12:54.931
that somebody is taking advantage of you.

12:55.224 --> 12:57.870
So you can stop it if you want to stop it.

12:57.919 --> 13:03.971
You can start if you want it. It is an open game. Exactly. That's good.

13:08.410 --> 13:10.490
Now you were telling me about that

13:10.540 --> 13:12.760
daily structure was helpful to you.

13:14.530 --> 13:15.170
What else?

13:15.220 --> 13:20.298
Or the information in the beginning, what more was helpful

13:20.334 --> 13:23.320
in the program and how did it help you?

13:24.010 --> 13:25.730
How did it impact you?

13:25.900 --> 13:28.598
What I really liked and which was not

13:28.624 --> 13:33.302
even, I think, marketed as much when I

13:33.316 --> 13:36.626
decided to use it was the body system. Yeah.

13:36.688 --> 13:39.818
The feedback. The feedback from bodies from you

13:39.844 --> 13:42.002
select who are the people around you that

13:42.016 --> 13:44.606
are going to support you through your process.

13:44.788 --> 13:48.460
And it actually helped them to know how to support me.

13:48.910 --> 13:51.086
So the fact that we teach in small

13:51.148 --> 13:56.162
videos, the family members, YouTube, your friends who

13:56.176 --> 13:58.694
are your buddies, that they got some more

13:58.792 --> 14:01.514
instruction on how to be helpful to you. Yeah.

14:01.672 --> 14:03.350
And you see, I actually didn't know that

14:03.400 --> 14:07.730
you received videos, but it did help.

14:08.755 --> 14:09.160
It was interesting.

14:09.160 --> 14:11.160
I didn't know.

14:13.430 --> 14:15.702
But I could see a change in the

14:15.716 --> 14:17.742
way that they were interacting with me. With you.

14:17.816 --> 14:22.074
Yeah, that's interesting because we try in the program because

14:22.112 --> 14:25.338
we want to see how can we help people and

14:25.424 --> 14:29.034
use their natural system and natural resources and family and

14:29.072 --> 14:32.542
friends are natural resource, and that's the goal.

14:32.566 --> 14:34.510
But it's pleasant to hear that that's

14:34.570 --> 14:36.330
really the way you experience it also.

14:36.380 --> 14:39.318
Yeah, because it also, I think, clarified a lot

14:39.344 --> 14:42.006
to them of what is going on with you,

14:42.128 --> 14:44.900
which is not something that you can always explain.

14:45.710 --> 14:47.118
It's not they are going with you

14:47.144 --> 14:48.666
to a doctor's appointment or whatever.

14:48.728 --> 14:52.566
So in that sense, I truly felt a change

14:52.628 --> 14:56.480
in their interactions with their way of supporting you.

14:56.930 --> 14:57.980
That's interesting. That's very nice.

15:04.710 --> 15:06.898
I remember that he once mentioned to

15:06.924 --> 15:10.174
me the self reflection aspects, that it

15:10.212 --> 15:13.474
helped you look different at yourself.

15:13.632 --> 15:17.398
Could you tell something about how that works for you?

15:17.484 --> 15:20.674
Yeah, I think in the self reflection, I probably

15:20.712 --> 15:23.830
didn't mention it now again, because it has become so

15:23.880 --> 15:25.618
natural for me to do this now.

15:25.704 --> 15:29.290
So I think the most important part of

15:29.340 --> 15:32.806
my 15 minutes is that it's about learning

15:32.868 --> 15:35.734
new behaviors that you then incorporate in your

15:35.772 --> 15:38.220
DNA and that you then continue to use.

15:38.550 --> 15:40.858
So the idea is not that you're going

15:40.884 --> 15:43.402
to use this and then forget about it.

15:43.476 --> 15:45.814
The idea is that you're going to change the way that

15:45.852 --> 15:48.900
you are. So self reflection can be a lot of things.

15:49.650 --> 15:52.370
One of the things that I think that I realized

15:52.430 --> 15:56.038
for myself that learning to say no in every type

15:56.064 --> 15:59.640
of circumstance is not an easy thing to do.

16:01.230 --> 16:04.606
So through the program, you learned to put

16:04.728 --> 16:07.078
more boundaries and say no to people.

16:07.224 --> 16:09.898
It's already discovering that this is I think the

16:09.924 --> 16:14.086
first step in the program is always observing certain

16:14.208 --> 16:16.414
behavior, which was interesting for me as well, because

16:16.452 --> 16:19.198
we have the idea that immediately we need to

16:19.224 --> 16:22.200
change something, which is quite difficult actually.

16:22.770 --> 16:24.298
But if you already start by

16:24.324 --> 16:26.650
observing behavior that you have.

16:26.760 --> 16:28.262
Yeah, it goes slower.

16:28.346 --> 16:30.254
It goes slower, and it's much more mindful,

16:30.302 --> 16:33.420
and you're a little bit milder on yourself.

16:34.050 --> 16:37.320
So certain behaviors, and then you

16:37.950 --> 16:39.658
decide for yourself that you actually have

16:39.684 --> 16:42.626
choices of shooting for another behavior.

16:42.818 --> 16:45.710
And I think in the first step realizing

16:45.770 --> 16:48.718
that, okay, I have difficulties to say no.

16:48.864 --> 16:52.114
Then you observe that for some time, and

16:52.152 --> 16:54.298
then you can realize, okay, what's another type

16:54.324 --> 16:56.026
of behavior that I can have?

16:56.208 --> 16:57.238
That's interesting.

16:57.384 --> 16:58.814
You always make me smile.

16:58.862 --> 17:00.946
Because when you are telling this about saying

17:01.008 --> 17:04.750
no, I was thinking did we include this

17:04.800 --> 17:06.262
as a topic in the program?

17:06.336 --> 17:08.589
And I don't even remember.

17:08.760 --> 17:11.770
So I would assume that this was

17:11.819 --> 17:14.685
some self discovery that you did by

17:14.748 --> 17:17.160
answering the questions and observing yourself.

17:17.670 --> 17:21.321
Because it's not something that we certainly

17:21.396 --> 17:22.773
not in the version that you were

17:22.811 --> 17:25.417
attending, because since then it has evolved.

17:25.574 --> 17:27.358
But in the version that you are attending, we

17:27.384 --> 17:30.480
never said that saying no is an important thing.

17:31.170 --> 17:34.294
So it seems that it's something that you are subconsciously...

17:34.392 --> 17:36.862
There are a couple of questions every day.

17:36.936 --> 17:39.898
I don't remember them by heart, which trigger yourself

17:39.984 --> 17:44.410
reflection and then you can listen for yourself, certain

17:44.520 --> 17:47.794
behaviors or things that are getting into your way.

17:47.892 --> 17:51.840
And I think this is an example of something that really...

17:52.650 --> 17:54.598
Because do you remember how long is it to go?

17:54.624 --> 17:58.560
Is it more than a year or more years?

18:00.750 --> 18:03.658
It's actually almost certainly two

18:03.684 --> 18:05.638
and a half years ago.

18:05.664 --> 18:08.278
That the program. It's interesting.

18:08.364 --> 18:10.858
I forgot that it was already so long

18:10.884 --> 18:15.250
ago because then you have a better overview

18:16.770 --> 18:18.914
what it makes on the long term.

18:18.962 --> 18:21.780
Because sometimes people say, yeah, I'm going to do.

18:22.170 --> 18:24.790
Sometimes people by mistakes, write me an email

18:24.840 --> 18:29.258
and say your course or your Elearning.

18:29.354 --> 18:32.950
But I did never design it as an Elearning

18:33.270 --> 18:36.490
because you are familiar in companies with Elearning.

18:36.870 --> 18:38.002
What's the difference between

18:38.076 --> 18:39.374
this program and Elearning?

18:39.422 --> 18:41.114
Because some people think because there's

18:41.162 --> 18:43.474
also some videos in the program.

18:43.572 --> 18:46.414
So some people think it's something like

18:46.452 --> 18:48.838
Elearning, but it's different, I guess. Yeah.

18:48.864 --> 18:54.238
Because Elearning is really a training you would train

18:54.324 --> 18:57.478
someone on, I don't know, stress management only.

18:57.624 --> 19:00.802
I'm not saying that there's no aspects in there which I

19:00.816 --> 19:06.274
would rather consider as mentoring, someone who has a lot of

19:06.312 --> 19:10.678
more experience in it, who is sharing techniques on how you

19:10.704 --> 19:17.414
can better manage your stress, how it would be easier for

19:17.452 --> 19:22.000
you to get your mind to slow down.

19:23.290 --> 19:25.900
There's a couple of techniques that I can think of.

19:28.550 --> 19:30.078
What is the big difference is that I

19:30.104 --> 19:32.914
would rather call it some kind of coaching

19:32.962 --> 19:35.610
mode because it's self coaching mode.

19:37.670 --> 19:40.666
It's you in person behind the camera.

19:40.738 --> 19:43.940
It becomes quite personal in that way.

19:44.390 --> 19:50.290
And through the questions, you trigger people to reflect

19:50.350 --> 19:54.962
and bring them to their not you're the expert.

19:54.986 --> 19:57.394
But I think there's solution part of their

19:57.432 --> 20:01.982
brain that activates the solution focused thinking areas

20:02.006 --> 20:06.094
in the brain.Because otherwise I mean people that are

20:06.132 --> 20:08.474
in this phase are in their reptile brain

20:08.522 --> 20:10.490
and they don't find solutions anymore.

20:10.610 --> 20:13.980
So that's why it's stronger, I think.

20:15.090 --> 20:19.150
I would certainly not consider it as an Elearning.

20:21.090 --> 20:23.834
I wanted to hear what was your opinion?

20:23.882 --> 20:27.094
Because sometimes people are confused. Because of course most

20:27.132 --> 20:30.300
of the things on the market are Elearning. Yeah.

20:30.630 --> 20:33.506
And it's quite difficult to explain to people what's

20:33.518 --> 20:39.182
the difference because you learn some techniques, but it's

20:39.206 --> 20:41.194
not sure that you will integrate them in your

20:41.232 --> 20:44.158
daily life and in all the different contexts that

20:44.184 --> 20:47.030
you are going to work and professional.

20:47.150 --> 20:52.114
And I seem to have impression that you could

20:52.152 --> 20:54.814
integrate quite a lot of those things as well

20:54.852 --> 20:58.020
in your private life as in your business life.

20:59.250 --> 21:01.810
Because I remember that you once told me because

21:01.860 --> 21:05.146
we did this interview in Dutch language before.

21:05.328 --> 21:09.274
And I remember that in the Dutch interview you told

21:09.312 --> 21:12.838
me something that there were things that your daughter or

21:12.864 --> 21:17.014
one of your children were taking over, all those things

21:17.052 --> 21:19.834
that you indirectly were learning in the program.

21:19.992 --> 21:22.426
And then at a certain moment, I don't know,

21:22.548 --> 21:25.310
there was an incident that on the table.

21:25.370 --> 21:28.814
Your daughter at certain moment said, let's

21:28.922 --> 21:31.774
do this or that. Several things that

21:31.872 --> 21:33.542
we learned or that we adapted.

21:33.626 --> 21:35.698
I think one of the things that we did

21:35.724 --> 21:40.150
is sometimes we ask each other to ask nice

21:40.200 --> 21:43.234
stories about the day of people determining their day.

21:43.272 --> 21:46.800
So it brings it back to the positive part.

21:47.130 --> 21:50.686
So otherwise you always focus on the problems.

21:50.808 --> 21:53.110
That's something you still keep as a ritual.

21:53.550 --> 21:55.546
I'm not saying that we're doing that every day,

21:55.608 --> 21:58.620
but at regular points in time, we ask them

21:59.370 --> 22:03.370
and the children, it's funny because they even start

22:03.420 --> 22:07.654
a conversation themselves, and they will also notice when

22:07.692 --> 22:09.862
somebody is not replying to the question.

22:09.936 --> 22:13.354
So being very mindful towards children, if

22:13.392 --> 22:15.338
my husband is, for example, not answering,

22:15.374 --> 22:17.170
they will ask very nice questions.

22:17.220 --> 22:18.322
And how is your data?

22:18.396 --> 22:23.714
You haven't said anything, so it's quite helpful.

22:23.762 --> 22:25.414
So you can translate actually.

22:25.572 --> 22:27.874
And I think that is the challenge for each one of us.

22:27.912 --> 22:30.346
You follow the program and it's not like

22:30.468 --> 22:33.142
sets of rules that you need to follow.

22:33.276 --> 22:34.882
You can then see how it works for

22:34.896 --> 22:37.980
you and then adapt it to your situation.

22:38.490 --> 22:41.866
So these things that your children, for instance,

22:41.928 --> 22:46.214
were learning indirectly, was there some conscious effort

22:46.262 --> 22:47.974
that you said, oh, I want to share,

22:48.072 --> 22:49.634
or did that happen spontaneously?

22:49.682 --> 22:50.854
How does that work?

22:50.892 --> 22:53.590
I think to me it happened at the start very

22:53.640 --> 22:57.838
spontaneously because to be honest, my day didn't consist of

22:57.864 --> 22:59.974
a lot than the things that I was learning there.

23:00.012 --> 23:02.674
So you want to share of what is

23:02.712 --> 23:04.066
going on and what you are learning.

23:04.128 --> 23:06.646
And it brings you back in a

23:06.648 --> 23:08.938
nice way because before you're ill, your

23:08.964 --> 23:11.362
children don't understand what is going on.

23:11.496 --> 23:13.318
And I think then they saw a shift as

23:13.344 --> 23:17.158
well with me learning new things, bringing it to

23:17.184 --> 23:20.770
them and creating an interest on their side.

23:20.940 --> 23:25.334
And then I think later then you reflect

23:25.382 --> 23:27.202
back on what I learned from it.

23:27.216 --> 23:31.190
And you also realize, well, if you want to prevent

23:31.250 --> 23:34.822
your kids go through this, which you certainly want to

23:34.836 --> 23:37.860
do, then there's certain things you want to teach them.

23:38.730 --> 23:41.554
And then it's about how to go about

23:41.592 --> 23:43.942
it and how to explain the concepts and

23:44.076 --> 23:46.498
in a way that children also understand and

23:46.524 --> 23:49.582
they understand much more than we usually think. Yeah.

23:49.656 --> 23:50.580
That's amazing.

23:51.570 --> 23:53.050
In the beginning because the program

23:53.100 --> 23:54.286
is not designed for children.

23:54.348 --> 23:58.486
And one day there was a father of a 13 year old.

23:58.608 --> 24:02.182
They asked me, can my son follow your program?

24:02.256 --> 24:05.734
And I said, I'm sorry, I really don't know.

24:05.892 --> 24:10.618
But if he wants to try and he needs more

24:10.644 --> 24:13.570
help, I will step in and maybe you can help.

24:13.620 --> 24:17.926
And actually, afterwards I heard that this was probably

24:17.988 --> 24:21.514
pretty much your 13 year old kid, but it

24:21.552 --> 24:25.630
seemed to have been working, and I even had

24:25.740 --> 24:29.218
recently I met someone where mother and daughter were

24:29.244 --> 24:34.438
both two children, although it's more made in a

24:34.464 --> 24:39.178
language for adults, but indirectly, it seems that it

24:39.204 --> 24:41.820
affects sometimes other members in the family.

24:43.350 --> 24:43.786
Okay.

24:43.848 --> 24:47.062
So there was the daily aspect of

24:47.076 --> 24:53.078
self reflection, and then after that, you

24:53.104 --> 24:56.006
jumped into your normal business life.

24:56.068 --> 25:01.178
And so now that you look back two years and

25:01.204 --> 25:04.898
a half later, other things that you want to add

25:04.984 --> 25:08.678
or to make the picture more complete, or do you

25:08.704 --> 25:11.320
think that you have mentioned the most important things?

25:14.030 --> 25:17.478
I think what I did realize, coming back to

25:17.504 --> 25:21.906
work and then coming into contact with other people

25:21.968 --> 25:25.914
that went through burnout or depression or had very

25:25.952 --> 25:30.022
high stress symptoms, that there is a wide variety

25:30.166 --> 25:35.394
in how people are helped and what information they

25:35.432 --> 25:38.180
have and what they know about it. Yeah.

25:38.750 --> 25:41.010
And it does seem to have a big

25:41.060 --> 25:45.234
impact on the success rate of view of

25:45.392 --> 25:50.326
feeling good and being very effective, efficient.

25:50.518 --> 25:52.606
What do you mean with wide variety?

25:52.678 --> 25:54.774
I'm not sure if I understand that.

25:54.812 --> 26:00.578
Well, there are big differences.

26:00.734 --> 26:04.978
So you have people who recover well because in

26:05.004 --> 26:09.838
your company you can compare with one of the

26:09.864 --> 26:14.474
highest burnout ratios in our company, in our industry.

26:14.642 --> 26:16.102
So there's quite a lot of

26:16.116 --> 26:18.540
people that I can connect with.

26:20.190 --> 26:24.430
And then you see differences in you have people

26:24.480 --> 26:27.480
that are absent for a very long time. Yes.

26:28.170 --> 26:31.670
Sometimes two, three years that people are absent.

26:31.790 --> 26:34.102
That makes me feel sad because most

26:34.236 --> 26:36.410
of those cases could have been prevented.

26:36.470 --> 26:40.438
And as a medical doctor, that hurts. It hurts a lot.

26:40.464 --> 26:43.738
And also it hurts me to see that when they come

26:43.764 --> 26:48.238
back that they are not always fully recovered and they have

26:48.264 --> 26:53.042
such a high risk to fall again, that's interesting because it's

26:53.066 --> 26:56.542
maybe not about the program as much, but I have a

26:56.556 --> 26:59.640
vision, but I would like to hear your vision on it.

27:00.570 --> 27:03.982
If you now after this experience, you see a

27:03.996 --> 27:07.558
person that you say this person has recovered well

27:07.644 --> 27:11.026
and has finished the process in the right way,

27:11.208 --> 27:14.950
and this person is going to have a relapse.

27:15.450 --> 27:18.334
Do you have an idea what makes you

27:18.372 --> 27:22.018
predict the difference, how you can see the

27:22.044 --> 27:25.366
difference between both groups of people?

27:25.428 --> 27:27.240
Because I see that a lot.

27:29.590 --> 27:33.458
I'm not trained as you are, but you do see

27:33.484 --> 27:35.546
a lot, even in just meeting the people and talking

27:35.608 --> 27:38.714
with them in the way they interact with others and

27:38.752 --> 27:41.078
the way that they put a lot of limitations on

27:41.104 --> 27:44.906
themselves, the ones who are going to relapse for me.

27:45.028 --> 27:52.218
So it's like they are overprotective always putting strong boundaries

27:52.254 --> 27:55.526
on what is possible and what's not possible, talking a

27:55.528 --> 27:59.702
lot about their burnout, saying that they need to do

27:59.716 --> 28:01.818
a lot to prevent a new burnout.

28:01.914 --> 28:06.580
So they're already talking it's happening

28:07.210 --> 28:09.446
or they want to convince others. Yeah.

28:09.508 --> 28:12.698
Or want to convince others and they need to be put

28:12.724 --> 28:16.578
in very protected jobs with not a lot of stress.

28:16.614 --> 28:18.938
And to be honest, that's what I always say,

28:18.964 --> 28:22.374
like, okay, where are those jobs without stress?

28:22.422 --> 28:24.810
And how do you define stress?

28:24.990 --> 28:28.626
Because I think even a librarian can have stress.

28:28.758 --> 28:31.778
So where are you going to end up if

28:31.804 --> 28:34.420
you're going to put these limitations onto yourself?

28:34.810 --> 28:36.590
So for me, there is still a lot of

28:36.640 --> 28:39.062
work for these people to do to work on.

28:39.256 --> 28:40.818
How do I see stress?

28:40.974 --> 28:42.530
How do I work with stress?

28:42.970 --> 28:46.274
And it's unfortunate to see that they didn't get

28:46.312 --> 28:50.522
these lines throughout the period that they were ill.

28:50.596 --> 28:52.358
Now I don't see it from the negative side because

28:52.384 --> 28:56.354
I also know that there are options to solve this.

28:56.452 --> 28:59.282
I really hope that these people find a

28:59.296 --> 29:04.240
way to create support for their specific situation.

29:05.290 --> 29:09.686
But it's unfortunate to see but it reminds me,

29:09.808 --> 29:12.054
a colleague of mine who is also in burnout

29:12.102 --> 29:18.220
and stress management medical doctor also, he calls that

29:19.030 --> 29:21.546
some of those people, that they have the missionary

29:21.618 --> 29:24.638
syndrome, like if they're on a mission and they

29:24.664 --> 29:28.646
want either to convert others to the way they

29:28.828 --> 29:33.110
are cured and then the other ones were overprotective.

29:33.730 --> 29:37.718
And I have the impression that is quite often and

29:37.744 --> 29:40.000
that's what we try to avoid with a program.

29:41.230 --> 29:45.510
Many ways of helping are normative.

29:45.630 --> 29:48.158
And they say how the end result

29:48.244 --> 29:52.094
should be and what someone should reach.

29:52.252 --> 29:57.160
And by putting norms, I have the impression that they

29:57.790 --> 30:01.578
stay within the problem because if you enter a burnout

30:01.674 --> 30:05.162
quite often, it's because you up to perfectionist or you

30:05.176 --> 30:07.060
want to do too much and so on.

30:07.390 --> 30:12.218
And if there's not this spontaneous self reflection that

30:12.244 --> 30:17.102
we try to facilitate partially in the program, then

30:17.296 --> 30:20.174
you are not correcting yourself to where you want

30:20.212 --> 30:23.682
to be deeply, but you are trying to adapt

30:23.706 --> 30:27.342
to a norm, just like in the traditional medical

30:27.426 --> 30:30.558
medicine where the doctor makes a medical prescription.

30:30.714 --> 30:33.374
And if you have a cancer, you have to

30:33.412 --> 30:36.602
hope that your doctor makes that medical prescription because

30:36.736 --> 30:39.066
there is a probably the best solution.

30:39.258 --> 30:42.734
And if you need antibiotics, it's probably best

30:42.772 --> 30:45.546
that the doctor prescribes the right antibiotic.

30:45.678 --> 30:52.394
But in stress related issues, if you don't find the way

30:52.432 --> 30:56.078
you want to be yourself and you cannot align who you

30:56.104 --> 31:00.050
are with who you want to be, then you will probably

31:00.160 --> 31:05.082
repeat the same mistakes and quite often it makes me suffer

31:05.106 --> 31:10.130
that so many people get in the hands of people who

31:10.180 --> 31:14.320
have good intentions in coaching others.

31:16.630 --> 31:19.574
The most risks I see quite often if they have

31:19.612 --> 31:26.258
been coached by ex burnout patients or people who have

31:26.284 --> 31:29.294
had the burnout but did not recover themselves and then

31:29.332 --> 31:33.100
start a coaching practice, I see that quite often.

31:34.570 --> 31:37.958
For instance, if I look at you now here in the

31:37.984 --> 31:45.762
interview, it's like you are grounded in your body and yourself

31:45.956 --> 31:51.680
and those people who did not yet finish the process.

31:52.190 --> 31:54.634
You see there is some tension,

31:54.682 --> 31:57.740
there is some cautiousness in that.

31:59.630 --> 32:00.620
That's interesting.

32:02.210 --> 32:02.960
Okay.

32:04.070 --> 32:06.174
Any other things you wanted to share?

32:06.332 --> 32:08.838
No, I think that's it then I thank you a lot.

32:08.864 --> 32:10.374
I'm very happy that you want to

32:10.412 --> 32:13.386
share your experience with some people who

32:13.448 --> 32:17.214
want to know more about this issues. Thanks a lot. Okay.

32:17.312 --> 32:17.640
You're welcome.

00:01.510 --> 00:02.230
Hi, Gita.

00:02.350 --> 00:05.180
Nice to meet you here for a short talk.

00:06.170 --> 00:08.410
You have been studying at Vlerick Business School

00:08.470 --> 00:10.866
and you are working there.

00:11.048 --> 00:15.294
And at a certain point, you started the self

00:15.332 --> 00:18.080
coaching with the '15Minutes4Me.com' program.

00:18.710 --> 00:21.260
And I'd like to hear from you.

00:22.790 --> 00:24.774
What did you do in your life

00:24.932 --> 00:27.140
as well, professionally as for yourself?

00:29.330 --> 00:31.446
Because it's a strange experience.

00:31.568 --> 00:36.330
You talk to a machine, it's like something automatic.

00:36.830 --> 00:41.178
And a lot of time people say

00:41.324 --> 00:43.606
that should be something very impersonal.

00:43.798 --> 00:46.506
But the goal is to connect you with yourself.

00:46.628 --> 00:48.500
And I would like to hear

00:49.190 --> 00:53.034
how this experience was for you. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah.

00:53.072 --> 00:53.602
Good morning, Paul.

00:53.626 --> 00:55.040
It's great to be here again.

00:55.850 --> 00:58.580
I think if I look back at the entire experience,

00:59.270 --> 01:01.842
probably at first I was quite surprised that a lot

01:01.856 --> 01:06.498
of the interaction would be via an online tool, which

01:06.524 --> 01:09.090
in fact, immediately triggered my interest because I had never

01:09.140 --> 01:12.500
worked with such an online self coaching program before.

01:13.910 --> 01:15.942
I think the personal moments

01:15.956 --> 01:17.590
are built in on a monthly basis.

01:17.710 --> 01:21.646
I found it a really great combination because the tool enabled

01:21.658 --> 01:25.422
me just to spend 15 minutes every day reflecting on what

01:25.436 --> 01:28.302
I'd done during the day, but not only reflecting on what

01:28.316 --> 01:33.378
had happened, also taking the time to look ahead and to

01:33.464 --> 01:36.380
prepare myself mentally for the next day.

01:37.190 --> 01:40.398
So do you mean that the process what happened for

01:40.424 --> 01:43.014
you is that it helped you reflect better on the

01:43.052 --> 01:47.958
past, the recent past, and connect better with what you

01:47.984 --> 01:49.926
want to focus on in the future?

01:50.048 --> 01:52.040
Yeah, I think it was a combination of both.

01:53.030 --> 01:56.142
In fact, probably it was more future focused, I think, which

01:56.156 --> 01:58.998
was also great because it was a little bit learning from

01:59.024 --> 02:01.542
the past, but really focused on, in fact, learning from the

02:01.556 --> 02:05.022
past, looking at what is really good in day to day

02:05.036 --> 02:09.018
activities on a professional or a personal basis, keeping those in

02:09.044 --> 02:12.378
mind, and then seeing, in fact, where the difference lies in

02:12.404 --> 02:16.506
reaching and doing what you still need to do to reach

02:16.568 --> 02:19.062
and to achieve the goals. Okay.

02:19.196 --> 02:23.974
And how did impact the practical, daily

02:24.022 --> 02:27.620
way you are working or dealing with people?

02:28.430 --> 02:31.820
So you say I was more aware of my focus,

02:32.210 --> 02:36.294
so I'm curious to find out what that did to

02:36.332 --> 02:40.098
you and how that led to you interact with the

02:40.124 --> 02:42.658
world, with your business, with your colleagues.

02:42.814 --> 02:46.650
Yeah, I think it sharpened by taking a few minutes

02:46.760 --> 02:49.486
each day to think about the next day's priorities.

02:49.618 --> 02:53.778
Experimentally, it sharpened my focus for the next day.

02:53.804 --> 02:57.426
So immediately I knew what was at the top of my list.

02:57.488 --> 02:58.890
I woke up each morning with a clear

02:58.940 --> 03:01.770
goal, in fact, in mind for the day.

03:01.940 --> 03:03.210
That was something that I had not

03:03.260 --> 03:05.958
done on a regular basis before.

03:06.044 --> 03:07.806
So perhaps at moments, but not

03:07.868 --> 03:10.746
in a structured, natural way.

03:10.928 --> 03:13.558
And so doing, in fact, by being better prepared,

03:13.594 --> 03:15.102
it helped me to interact with my colleagues in

03:15.116 --> 03:16.818
a far more relaxed way because I knew that

03:16.844 --> 03:19.498
I was in control of the day's agenda.

03:19.654 --> 03:21.390
I knew what I wanted to achieve.

03:22.190 --> 03:24.402
I was more clear in front of myself as

03:24.416 --> 03:27.450
well about certain goals of meetings were planned.

03:29.190 --> 03:33.034
So it's like because your brain was more focused on what

03:33.072 --> 03:38.374
you wanted, on your priority and your outcome, you are more

03:38.412 --> 03:43.786
present with people and better able to be connected with yourself

03:43.908 --> 03:45.466
and with the goals at the same time.

03:45.528 --> 03:47.590
Something like that.Yeah,indeed. Okay.

03:47.700 --> 03:48.660
That's interesting.

03:50.010 --> 03:53.134
Did you notice either from people in your

03:53.172 --> 03:58.678
private life or in your business environment, did

03:58.704 --> 04:03.660
they observe some minor change or something?

04:04.530 --> 04:07.258
Well, the feedback that I received, in fact, from

04:07.284 --> 04:09.538
those closest to me and also those who I

04:09.564 --> 04:12.814
work with was that, one, I was far more

04:12.852 --> 04:17.206
focused on achieving what I set out for myself.

04:17.387 --> 04:19.390
And two, that I was very open

04:19.440 --> 04:21.180
to share what I was learning.

04:21.570 --> 04:23.494
And there was a lot of appreciation, in fact,

04:23.532 --> 04:27.242
there that I was sharing some of the experiences.

04:27.386 --> 04:28.980
That's interesting. Yeah.

04:29.310 --> 04:32.580
So let's now move to your other experience

04:35.190 --> 04:38.400
as a professional in a business school.

04:39.450 --> 04:41.926
You asked me at a certain moment to come

04:41.988 --> 04:48.482
for a business coaching, professional development coaching, and I've

04:48.506 --> 04:51.058
done the same school as you did. That's where we met.

04:51.084 --> 04:55.678
Also the first time at certain moment, you asked me if you

04:55.704 --> 04:58.150
would work with me as a coach, how would that work?

04:58.200 --> 04:59.314
What would you do?

04:59.472 --> 05:01.810
And some months later, you called

05:01.860 --> 05:04.462
me to start the project.

05:04.656 --> 05:07.834
And I'm curious to find out the

05:07.872 --> 05:10.442
learning process of interaction.

05:10.526 --> 05:14.530
So it was combined with the '
'15Minutes4Me.com' program.

05:14.700 --> 05:20.338
But there were these monthly sessions where you came with

05:20.364 --> 05:23.398
some questions about where you wanted to go and how

05:23.424 --> 05:26.170
to go and how to reach your professional goals.

05:27.030 --> 05:29.246
For 2 hours, we were interacting

05:29.378 --> 05:31.714
and I was listening to you.

05:31.752 --> 05:35.314
I tried to understand and to help you

05:35.412 --> 05:38.220
guide through different steps in the process.

05:38.610 --> 05:43.738
And I'm curious what came out for you

05:43.884 --> 05:48.720
and how did that happen for you? Yeah. Okay.

05:49.350 --> 05:53.086
Well, I think what came out in general of

05:53.268 --> 05:58.282
the process is a built in reflex just to

05:58.296 --> 06:00.970
prepare myself on a day to day basis.

06:01.710 --> 06:05.506
I think what I've also learned is that you can

06:05.568 --> 06:10.680
challenge yourself far more than you remember each day.

06:11.070 --> 06:13.858
So I think through discussions, it was very interesting to

06:13.884 --> 06:19.082
learn about the amount of knowledge, what I said tools

06:19.106 --> 06:22.154
and principles that can be applied, be it in meetings

06:22.202 --> 06:25.200
with colleagues, be it in your personal life.

06:25.650 --> 06:27.994
And I think in the business of our lives, we

06:28.032 --> 06:30.598
forget that there is so much that there are so

06:30.624 --> 06:34.690
many concepts and aspects to consider on a daily basis.

06:35.730 --> 06:38.998
So a few examples, I think on the one

06:39.024 --> 06:44.446
hand, professionally, and this is very evident, of course,

06:44.508 --> 06:46.238
but when one is wrapped up in a role

06:46.274 --> 06:49.634
that is between more of a market facing role.

06:49.682 --> 06:52.382
Sometimes the internal communication feels

06:52.406 --> 06:54.418
a little bit less important. Yeah.

06:54.444 --> 06:57.266
Because in your work you have a marketing

06:57.338 --> 07:02.182
aspect, but also internal communication aspect of it.

07:02.196 --> 07:03.206
Yes, indeed.

07:03.338 --> 07:05.700
So I think what I really learned was that

07:06.870 --> 07:10.546
never ever is to lose sight of the importance that

07:10.728 --> 07:16.046
internal communication role plays and the power and strength

07:16.118 --> 07:22.022
of communicating openly, regularly, consistently using a repetitive agenda

07:22.106 --> 07:24.142
of points to be discussed each time.

07:24.336 --> 07:27.122
I think if your open communication, if your internal communication

07:27.266 --> 07:29.460
is strong, then you can go to the market.

07:30.570 --> 07:31.114
Yeah.

07:31.212 --> 07:35.470
Because that's what often happens with professionals.

07:35.850 --> 07:38.602
They get a focus from their organization.

07:38.796 --> 07:41.182
For instance, if they get a focus,

07:41.316 --> 07:42.874
you have to go to the market.

07:43.032 --> 07:46.418
It's like we have a tendency to focus on our brain,

07:46.454 --> 07:51.046
on the market and we forget where the whole picture is.

07:51.228 --> 07:54.418
And it sounds like what you are telling me is

07:54.444 --> 07:58.762
that in this coaching process you reconnect better the full

07:58.896 --> 08:02.726
picture, the full process of what you had to achieve.

08:02.858 --> 08:03.442
Absolutely.

08:03.576 --> 08:05.686
So that's really some of the basics, but some of

08:05.688 --> 08:08.940
the basics that are forgotten when we're in there.

08:11.430 --> 08:17.734
What's interesting to me, I've always been fascinated that on one

08:17.772 --> 08:22.018
hand, you and I, we went to a business school, and over

08:22.044 --> 08:25.174
the years I had a lot of clients who at the same

08:25.212 --> 08:28.582
time were doing an MBA program at the Vlerick Business School and at

08:28.596 --> 08:30.470
the same time called me for a coaching.

08:30.590 --> 08:33.240
I was always intrigued to find out

08:34.830 --> 08:37.510
what's different, where is it complementary?

08:38.190 --> 08:43.442
Because why would you do two types of developments,

08:43.586 --> 08:46.018
sometimes even in the same moment?

08:46.044 --> 08:48.682
For you it was years ago that you were a

08:48.696 --> 08:51.358
student at the school and you came for

08:51.384 --> 08:54.250
coaching later, but I've seen both processes happen.

08:54.420 --> 08:57.540
So how do you see this?

08:58.290 --> 08:59.842
What's the difference and it's value

08:59.916 --> 09:02.230
of each of those components? Yeah.

09:02.340 --> 09:05.820
Well, I think probably there's no, let's say, chronological order

09:06.690 --> 09:09.322
if one has the coaching inside before you come to

09:09.336 --> 09:13.462
follow a program at Vlerick, you're very well equipped in

09:13.476 --> 09:15.682
the sense that you really know yourself well and you

09:15.696 --> 09:17.674
know your limits and how much you can take on

09:17.712 --> 09:20.710
and what you're capable of achieving.

09:21.450 --> 09:22.402
And at the same time, I

09:22.416 --> 09:25.130
think it's a fantastic combination.

09:25.250 --> 09:28.618
If you come to Vlerick because you're searching for

09:28.644 --> 09:30.578
more knowledge, in fact, to apply to your professional

09:30.614 --> 09:34.378
life, to your team, to your organization. If you

09:34.404 --> 09:37.726
couple that with a very strong understanding of how

09:37.788 --> 09:39.742
you can best interact with people and how you

09:39.756 --> 09:43.862
can best organize your life and find the balance,

09:43.946 --> 09:47.650
then I think you have a strong, willing combination.

09:48.810 --> 09:51.370
Could I summarize it like this, that at least

09:51.420 --> 09:53.398
my experience was that when I was at the

09:53.424 --> 09:57.410
school, I learned the big strategic maps.

09:57.590 --> 10:01.450
I learned where to position the business, what

10:01.500 --> 10:04.606
strategy to follow on a macro level.

10:04.788 --> 10:07.666
And I often had the impression that when people

10:07.728 --> 10:11.830
came here, they were trying to find out. Ok.

10:11.880 --> 10:14.042
Now I know the strategic maps.

10:14.186 --> 10:16.150
I know what would be good for the

10:16.200 --> 10:18.790
company, for my business unit, for my department.

10:19.110 --> 10:23.698
And now I need to learn to take the

10:23.724 --> 10:27.850
leadership to convince the people in my staff, people

10:27.900 --> 10:29.986
who are not in my staff, people that I

10:29.988 --> 10:32.842
have more or less formal influence on.

10:33.036 --> 10:35.950
And to make those things that I

10:36.000 --> 10:39.562
strategically learned in my business education happen

10:39.696 --> 10:41.770
in real daily business life.

10:41.940 --> 10:44.554
Is that more or less how you experience it?

10:44.592 --> 10:45.278
Yeah, indeed.

10:45.374 --> 10:47.710
So, in fact, a lot of our programs also

10:47.760 --> 10:50.698
concentrate on this material, but I would say that

10:50.724 --> 10:53.518
they probably do not go as deep on a

10:53.544 --> 10:56.254
personal basis, and that's where coaching really comes in.

10:56.292 --> 10:56.530
Yeah.

10:56.580 --> 11:00.034
So the real skills if I talk to you,

11:00.192 --> 11:04.078
how do I get this interaction going in the

11:04.104 --> 11:06.874
details of the interaction, and how do I make

11:06.912 --> 11:10.946
leadership with this or that employee specifically?

11:11.018 --> 11:12.060
Yeah, absolutely.

11:12.630 --> 11:14.858
In fact, as you mentioned, with strategic frameworks,

11:14.894 --> 11:17.894
if you want to be successful in implementing

11:17.942 --> 11:20.522
strategy, it's all about having your people aligned

11:20.606 --> 11:22.946
and on board with you as a manager.

11:23.138 --> 11:25.918
And of course, and then it's important to find

11:25.944 --> 11:29.350
out how do I do that with my personality?

11:30.210 --> 11:34.262
Because everyone has different strengths developed

11:34.406 --> 11:37.742
during childhood, during previous experiences.

11:37.886 --> 11:40.802
And often I have like this feeling

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that it's like a software upgrade.

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It's like when Windows, the first versions,

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were not adapted to the Internet, because

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there was no Internet in the world.

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And then every time there is a new upgrade,

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you can say, why do they need an upgrade?

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Because the world is changing and because you

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need more different interfaces with the world.

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And so quite often when people after the

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last coaching session were wrapping up, I had

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the impression that what they were doing was

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like an upgrade to the next level of

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leadership or professional development or something like that.

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That's more or less our new experiences. Yeah.

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And related to the coaching process,

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what did you learn from colleagues?

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How did they perceive the process?

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Well, I think my colleagues were not immediately aware.

12:44.030 --> 12:45.706
There was minimal impact, let's say, because I

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was doing it online in a very short

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period of time, 15 minutes a day.

12:50.220 --> 12:53.938
That was I could sometimes do that occasionally during

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the working day, but most often, in fact, during

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my private time where I could sit at my

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ease and quiet focus on the questions.

13:03.930 --> 13:07.438
I think that they were surprised by some of the

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new emails that I sent asking more for their opinion,

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asking more for their feedback on how we might best

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better structure meetings together and what was really interesting, by

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opening up and by asking for their feedback and input,

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I learned to understand them better as well. Okay.

13:24.048 --> 13:25.678
It was a reminder, in fact, of

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the importance and the power of continuously

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always checking, of course, with your colleagues

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which approach works best of imposing

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an approach or immediate style.

13:36.182 --> 13:38.998
So what you describe in here is that the

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process for your environment starts in a rather invisible

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way and I often get demands of companies who

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say we want to do a big coaching program

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where it's very visible that we are doing coaching.

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And my personal tendency is to start low profile because

13:58.032 --> 14:01.342
my experience is that if you announce change there is

14:01.356 --> 14:06.442
a lot of resistance and if you first develop small

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microdynamics of changing interactions and people after two or three

14:11.820 --> 14:14.962
months start to be surprised, hey, there is something different

14:15.036 --> 14:18.058
in the way this person is approaching me and I

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like it that it gets a better momentum.

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So the promise is lower the public promise,

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at least because there is no public promise.

14:29.450 --> 14:32.446
It's almost like someone steps almost

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invisibly in the coaching project.

14:35.130 --> 14:38.954
The manager knows, the person knows, but you don't communicate

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too much that you are doing it and then only

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after a while when people start to observe a difference,

14:45.990 --> 14:49.234
then you can start to share your knowledge and teach

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them something of what you learned.

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Is that what you mean? Absolutely. Yeah, indeed.

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That's good.

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And in fact, with many colleagues as well within

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the broader circle, if there was ever a question

14:59.070 --> 15:02.842
or a concern then immediately, you can indeed share

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a different perspective and yeah. That's great solution.

15:07.550 --> 15:10.354
Yeah, thanks a lot for sharing. You're welcome.

15:10.512 --> 15:11.140
It was great.

00:00.000 --> 00:02.482
Hello, I'm Philip Mast.

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I'm urologist in Belgium and I had the

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opportunity to test myself the '15Minutes4Me.com'

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program, which was very helpful in my personal view

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and in my personal experience to get out of

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negativism and get positive again.

00:24.908 --> 00:27.594
It was very important for me.

00:27.632 --> 00:29.326
It broadened my horizon.

00:29.458 --> 00:31.542
It put me back on the rails

00:31.662 --> 00:34.926
and was a very, very good experience.

00:35.108 --> 00:38.170
It helped me in contact with my patients.

00:38.230 --> 00:41.838
It helped me also in my daily practice and with the

00:41.864 --> 00:46.554
patients, with my employees and also in my private life.

00:46.712 --> 00:51.217
It helped me to get positive thoughts, to

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get a new or a better feeling.

00:55.080 --> 00:57.918
And it was necessary to do it every day.

00:58.064 --> 01:00.620
And it helped because it was also

01:01.370 --> 01:03.560
very easy to do at home.

01:04.430 --> 01:08.650
It has a lot threshold and it gives excellent

01:08.710 --> 01:12.140
results if you persist and do it every day.

01:13.970 --> 01:16.590
You told me that you have several patients that you refer

01:16.640 --> 01:21.342
to the program, and you told me some concrete samples of

01:21.416 --> 01:23.850
what people told you how it affected their lives.

01:23.960 --> 01:25.026
Can you expand on that?

01:25.088 --> 01:29.540
Well, the negativism got away.

01:30.110 --> 01:34.282
They were thinking differently, and they were forced

01:34.366 --> 01:38.398
by the program to think positive and positively.

01:38.434 --> 01:41.574
And this has a great impact, they told me, on

01:41.612 --> 01:45.402
their life because they got out of the shell again

01:45.476 --> 01:48.694
and they were able to put some context.

01:48.742 --> 01:52.278
They have a positive self esteem again, and

01:52.304 --> 01:54.666
it was very important for these people.

01:54.788 --> 01:57.438
They told me also that you have to go on

01:57.464 --> 02:01.170
with it for quite a time, and afterwards it gets

02:01.220 --> 02:05.526
automatically positive thinking another way to view things.

02:05.648 --> 02:08.780
And if it gets worse because you don't do it

02:09.110 --> 02:12.282
for a while, you can put it back on and

02:12.356 --> 02:16.398
go again and have a good effect of the program. Yeah.

02:16.424 --> 02:19.038
So you mean that if someone stops a little bit

02:19.064 --> 02:22.690
too early and they have a beginning of a relapse

02:22.750 --> 02:26.514
that they can take on take on again and that

02:26.552 --> 02:30.618
they will go on the rails back very quickly again.

02:30.764 --> 02:33.138
Then you told me one other example.

02:33.224 --> 02:36.414
You told about someone of your patients that

02:36.452 --> 02:38.790
you did not only see psychological effects, but

02:38.840 --> 02:43.174
that even physiological energy went up quite shortly

02:43.222 --> 02:45.618
after they started the program. Right.

02:45.704 --> 02:49.760
Because I saw them while having running, and

02:50.570 --> 02:53.322
she looked very bad at the first time.

02:53.336 --> 02:57.102
And then I expected her to say that she had to go

02:57.116 --> 03:00.018
to the program '15mins4me.com', and she did it.

03:00.104 --> 03:03.762
And the weeks afterwards, she looked very much better

03:03.896 --> 03:06.718
and told me afterwards that it was very helpful

03:06.814 --> 03:09.920
to get her in the positive thinking again, and

03:10.490 --> 03:13.890
physiologically and physically even she was better.

03:14.060 --> 03:14.466
Yeah.

03:14.528 --> 03:17.422
So you see like a kind of double impact,

03:17.566 --> 03:21.270
because on one side, the program works on the

03:21.320 --> 03:24.678
brain patterns and the thoughts, but indirectly it has

03:24.704 --> 03:26.866
a kind of physiological effect on the brain.

03:26.938 --> 03:29.070
I think the brain works better.

03:29.240 --> 03:31.686
It has more power to do with

03:31.688 --> 03:34.234
the other things than thinking negatively.

03:34.402 --> 03:40.278
That was my experience too when I was getting on

03:40.304 --> 03:44.430
the computer to do it that for myself the negative

03:44.930 --> 03:49.820
ideas went away and the positive thinking gives you more

03:51.890 --> 03:55.578
possibilities of having your brain work better and do things

03:55.604 --> 04:01.650
that you need every day working, running, to do some physical

04:02.390 --> 04:07.110
things have envy to do these things and not got

04:07.160 --> 04:09.370
back in your shell.

04:09.490 --> 04:11.550
If you look at your patients and you would

04:11.600 --> 04:16.038
compare doing this daily automatic exercise with this program

04:16.124 --> 04:21.137
compared to going to a psychotherapist, what are the

04:21.164 --> 04:24.402
differences, what's more useful when according to well I

04:24.416 --> 04:28.760
think that the low threshold of these possibilities with

04:29.390 --> 04:33.690
'15minutes4me.com' is an amazing great thing

04:33.740 --> 04:36.438
because otherwise you go once in a week once

04:36.464 --> 04:39.082
in a month to a psychologist or a psychiatrist

04:39.166 --> 04:42.618
and afterwards you don't have follow up here you

04:42.644 --> 04:45.034
give your own follow up every day and that's

04:45.082 --> 04:48.960
helps in getting these positive effects.Okay, great.Thanks.